Grant Morrison on the Scott/Emma affair.

[xdoop.insanejournal.com]

Back in S_D 1.0, I posted the storyline of Scott and Emma's affair from Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. I remember that there was some debate over whether or not Scott was actually cheating on Jean, since the hot sweaty sex he was having with Emma was only telepathic.

Well, here to settle the debate once and for all is Grant Morrison himself.

This is one of the questions from Grant Morrison's interview in the Comics Creators on X-Men book, which I highly recommend if you're an X-Men fan.

In your mind, did Scott and Emma commit adultery?

The way I saw it was that Jean and Scott had become remote. For me, the great emotional moment for Scott and Jean was when they ran out to die together on the moon during the Phoenix Saga. After Jean died, Scott ended up with a lot of other women. Scott was very attractive to women even though he didn't know it and I wanted to play around with that. Since he was becoming emotionally remote from Jean, because she was becoming more and more godlike, it just seemed he would naturally fall into the arms of someone more emotionally connected, which Emma actually was. Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else.

Comments

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

Thing is, I agreed with Morrison on this. It was tedious, his moping. But of course, he went right back to that moping soon as he could.

[sailorlibra.insanejournal.com]

Feh, I always thought that Scott and Emma made a much better couple than Scott and Jean.

And feh to Grant Morrison too. Just because your wife is being cold doesn't mean that cheating on her isn't cheating. The responsible thing would have been to get couples counseling or just to divorce her if things weren't working out.

Jeez, everytime Morrison says something, I lose even more respect for him. I didn't think that was even possible, anymore.

[toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com]

And feh to Grant Morrison too. Just because your wife is being cold doesn't mean that cheating on her isn't cheating. The responsible thing would have been to get couples counseling or just to divorce her if things weren't working out.

This. That shit was so weak.

[arbre_rieur.insanejournal.com]

So you agree with Morrison that it's a kind of adultery?

[jupiterrhode.insanejournal.com]

You should post the follow up where Jean rips Emma to bits. 'Cause it's fun.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Actually I think that sequence proves Morrison's point more than most, as Jean destroys any sympathy I might have had about her being the wronged party, by acting in just as brutal and cold blooded fashion as Emma at her worst ever did, purely because she feels aggrieved.

[mechanicaljewel.insanejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure most people care more about the mental state of their cheating partner than the actual act. Like that scene in "Love Actually" when Emma Thompson confronts Alan Rickman about the necklace he gave his secretary, and she says, "Was it just a necklace, or was it a necklace and sex, or even worse, a necklace and love?"

Obviously, most of the time, if someone's cheating physically, even if they don't love the person they're with, they probably don't care all that much about their legitimate partner either.

And honestly, this isn't "just a thought," it's the telepathic equivalent of phone sex. How many people would be ok with finding your spouse having phone sex with one of your associates?

[cleome45.insanejournal.com]

This is fail on just about every level imaginable. Art, writing, philosophy... Everything.

Bleah.

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

So I expect you like it best when everyone's all nice and does the right thing and never ever makes a mistake or does anything that surprises you.

Good luck on that with this series and this company, because that's not at all the nature of either.

[sandoz_iscariot.insanejournal.com]

Eh. Not a fan of Morison's approach or explanation. The moment that completely soured me on Scott/Emma was the scene where Scott is in "sex therapy" with Emma and he talks about how Jean "ran around in a corset for everyone and I get buttoned up sweaters" or some shit. You know, when Jean was being mindraped by the Hellfire Club. With Emma's help. At that point it was just FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE and I don't even ship Scott/Jean in 616.

[neuhallidae.insanejournal.com]

I missed that part, thankfully. And I really don't want to see it, because that will just make me hate this whole story arc even more, and I have anger management issues when it comes to shit writing already.

[xlineartx.insanejournal.com]

Ugh. I like Scott/Emma but I really don't like how it all started out. I think Morrison really missed the point of Scott and Jean, you know? I feel like they were best friends forever and she was the only one who really got him, pretty much.

So basically, yeah, First Class.

[jaybee3.insanejournal.com]

This is another reason why I'm hot and cold on Morrison. To me, Jean/Scott is as close as a OTP as you can get in the 616 outside of Sue/Reed, they've been together that long. And aside from the fact that every 100 issues or so they had Jean and Wolverine in a life-threatening situation where they went "OMG, the world's ending, let's make out", in the end it was back to Jean/Scott. Once Marvel made the decision to bring Jean back, turn Madeline all evil and clone-y and then with much ballyhoo marry Jean and Scott off they should have run with it.

But no, Morrison had Ms. Fake British Accent with the best body "money can buy" who used to torture X-Men but is now "good" play mind games with Scott (and she still does IMO) and because writers make him an idiot he goes along with it. I can't stand Emma/Scott because it such an obviously manipulative relationship even when Morrison and Whedon and Fraction hit us over the head with how cool Cyclops has become because of her, what a leader he is now, how much she truly wuvs him. I still call BS. If the Scott/Emma relationship was so healthy she have had to look like Jean to have mental sex with him and she wouldn't have to know almost his every waking thought (as she brags of doing). Jean never had to play with Scott's mind to get him to love her. The whole point of killing Jean (again) was to further E/S, not to mention using future Jean pushing Scott mentally to make out/get with Emma over her grave. Yuck.

As bad as the Ultimate Marvel universe got, the beginning of the Scott/Jean relationship there worked. Within the first 5 issues of the series you had the 19 year old Jean suddenly become attracted to newcomer Wolverine and sleep with him (instead of all the UST the 616 Jean/Logan had). When she finds out he planned on betraying Xavier she literally mind-throws him out of bed and that's the end of their fling - for good. She spends the next 15 issues waiting for Scott to make a move (she knows he wants to) and in the end she does it herself. After Wolverine tries to secretly kill Scott on a mission so he can have Jean to himself, she tells Logan that because he tried to kill the man she loved if he ever so much has a romantic/sexual thought about her ever again she will know and she blink him out of existence. Now that is the Jean the 616 writers should have paired with Cyclops.

[jaybee3.insanejournal.com]

Oops, that should read - "If the Scott/Emma relationship was so healthy she wouldn't have had to look like Jean to have mental sex with him". Darn typos.

I would say also that Emma's continual ragging on Jean post-mortem (when she can get away with it) is also a sign of her insecurity but that may be the only thing I actually like about Emma. She didn't like Jean and even though Jean's dead (and Emma is the victor for Scott) she STILL doesn't like Jean - and she won't pretend to either.

[kenn_el.insanejournal.com]

I've never been a Scott/Emma fan, mostly because while I can accept Scott giving her a chance as an X-Person, I can't see him being foolish enough to trust her as a lover, and because Emma's interest in Scott-the-bland diminishes her as a character, but at the time Marvel seemed to be pushing Jean/Logan every chance they got, and Scott/Emma was a reflex against making Scott a third wheel.

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

Here's the thing about that. It seems that most X-fans seem not to have a problem with Jean and Logan but go ballistic should Scott even think of anyone but Jean. That's telling.

Granted, I hate Logan, but just saying.

[ccsharumun.insanejournal.com]

Oh. Look. More cheating. How original.

[newnumber6.insanejournal.com]

I'm another one in the camp of people who like Scott and Emma together, but hate Morrison's handling of them.

I don't know, it seems like, to me, at least on X-Men, Morrison was incapable of both having an idea that was smart, and executing it well. He could have totally stupid ideas (Cassandra Nova is Xavier's twin sister he killed in the womb) and execute them BRILLIANTLY, in ways that almost redeem the stupidity of the idea, and he can see things (like "Scott and Emma would make an interesting couple") and do it in a way that I hate, but once he's gone I can try and enjoy what's left by ignoring his actual work on it.

And for all his talk about how Jean was becoming more remote and godlike, it actually READ to me like they, as a couple, just got into a comfortable boring routine, combined with Scott having the equivalent of a crisis over the fact that his wife makes more money than him, and Emma being new and exciting and sexy.

I'd rather have done without the affair plot totally (it's one of my personal squicks, admittedly), but even despite that, I don't think it was executed well.

[angelophile.insanejournal.com]

I'm still not sure whether Jean having an identical mental affair with Logan in X-men Forever agrees with Morrison's point that they'd soured as a couple, makes Scott AND Jean look like asses, or both. It's interesting to hold up Scott's reaction to Jean's affair with Logan in that book against Jean's reaction to Scott and Emma though.

Scott's affair with Emma was undoubtedly low, it wasn't out of character. He's always been flighty with women, which always put the Jean and Scott forever! romance and styling them as one of Marvel's greatest couples on shaky ground, especially when Jean never seemed to discourage Logan either.

I don't think this story did any of the characters any favours, but I don't think the marriage was something that should never be broken, funnily enough, given my feelings about Peter Parker and Mary Jane.

[okkult3000.insanejournal.com]

To be fair (sort of), Scott and Jean aren't married in X-Men Forever, so it isn't quite as egregious.
Also, X-Men Forever is terrible.

[ian_karkull.insanejournal.com]

I really don't see the issue here. No matter how deep and committed a relationship may have been initially, people do fall out of love too, and that's what's happened here.
Scott clearly couldn't deal with the fallout from The Twelve and grew emotionally distant. Jean had gone through the same before and managed okay, ("The bad feelings go away.") and since she was becoming Phoenix once again, she simply couldn't be as empathic as necessary.

So, Scott came to Emma for help, who initially simply tried to rid him of all of his emotional baggage (and Scott does have a lot of that), not to seduce him. While in this deep emotional connection, they recognized something within each other that made them fall in love with each other.
That happens too.

Break ups can be painful and horrific, but sometimes, they simply have to be, especially if you've become so emotionally codependent.
Lieber ein Ende mit Schrecken, als Schrecken ohne Ende. as the saying goes, which is to say that a "horrific ending is better than horror without end."

[xdoop.insanejournal.com]

Frankly, I only made this post because there were some people who said that Scott and Emma weren't really having an affair since the sex was telepathic and therefore not real, and I wanted to show the quote of Morrison stating "Yes, it was an affair."

[arilou_skiff.insanejournal.com]

I'm not neutral in the least. I have an almost pathological dislike of Jean/Scott (I think it started with X-men: Evolution, which was my gateway to the X-men, when I was cruelly disappointed that he didn't end up with Rogue...) their entire "deep mental connection/soulmates/meant to be/BEST COUPLE EVER!" thing Jean and Scott seems to inevitably get saddled with just makes me want them to fail in the most hideous manner.

The strange thing is that I don't dislike either Jean or Scott as characters (I rather like Scott, especially) it's just the pairing I can't stand.

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

It seems they were only ever together, both in story terms and in fan terms, because they were "supposed to be." But I never saw any real reason beyond that. Which is one reason I'd always found Scott kind of static and uninteresting till this story.

[volksjager.insanejournal.com]

Yikes, was everone fasting for a month ????

[retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com]

Jean/Scott with Logan triangle for spice, yay.
Emma/Scott with or without Jean triangle, no.

Why does Emma like Scott at all? She's so arrogant that I can't see anyone meeting her quality standards (maybe Namor or Doom). Not a lot of love for Emma here.

1. This art is ugh.
2. Jean is such a badass for busting into Emma's head.
3. Emma cosplaying as Jean to push Scott over the line? High-grade crack. Scott wants rekindled passion with Jean bad enough to cheat on Jean. Brain hurts now.

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

Why is the art ugh?

[jlroberson.insanejournal.com]

Here's a factor, so to speak, that might blow the rails out from under this whole thing: regardless of how it was retconned later to justify it, SCOTT ABANDONED MADELYNE PRYOR THE INSTANT JEAN POPPED UP. Where's the outrage over that, and did Jean care about MP?

Frankly, I'd find that a lot more repulsive, and creepy because it only underlines his weird fixation of Jean not really being love. He only liked MP because she looked like Jean. I'd say that was a deeper issue.(That was also around the time I dropped X-Men and all Marvel for a while, when Jean returned)

[sandoz_iscariot.insanejournal.com]

Um. A lot of people hate Scott for what he did to Madelyne. A lot.

did Jean care about MP?

Yes. When Jean came back she reached out to Scott, hoping to pick things back up, but he kept her at arm's distance while at the same time keeping Madelyne's existence from her. So for a while Jean (who's telepathy was gone around that time) had no idea what was going on. And when she found out about Madelyne and her baby, she told Scott to go back to her. Jean and Scott didn't get back together until the X-Men and Madelyne were apparently killed on live television.

[kd_the_movie.insanejournal.com]

Did Morrison have something against the name "Apocalypse"? every time they mention Scott's possession everyone always says it was by a spirit named En Sabah Nur which kind of implies that they had never encountered him before AND everyone should know Poccy's original name. I dunno it just seems easier to say possessed by Apocalypse.

[daso.insanejournal.com]

You know in the next issue they make a fairly big point about how nothing actually happened at any time in his mind? You didn't read that? I'm not suprised.

[xdoop.insanejournal.com]

I read all of Grant Morrison's run, actually. :)

You know in the next issue they make a fairly big point about how nothing actually happened at any time in his mind?

Um... no.

Jean wants to know what happened in Hong Kong, and it turns out that all Scott and Emma did then was talk.


That doesn't mean "nothing actually happened at any time in his mind." It was obvious they were having telepathic sex in the Riot storyline.





Maybe you don't remember the actual issues as clearly as you think you do?

[pyrotwilight.insanejournal.com]

It's funny. I remember reading this a bit in a library (it was in a trade) before really started comics.

My knowledge of the X-verse came from the 90's toon.

The only thing that came into my head was "Umm, why is Cyclops making out with a woman who in her dialogue is actively trying to make Cyclops less heroic?"

And my second thought was

"Scott, do you really think your PSYCHIC girlfriend won't notice REALLY soon?"

[ashtoreth.insanejournal.com]

Newsflash: Love goes in cycles. There will be times when you don't love your partner and aren't attracted to them. Good marriages remember that--regardless of love and sex--they are friends. You don't treat your friend like crap. You care about them, and you work through it. (Or you don't, and you let each other go.)

Morrison played this for stupid boringly drawn out character assassination drama and to boost his pet, Emma. When Claremont broke Scott/Jean up, it actually read like an extension of previous continuity. And HEY! He remembered that the most important thing about Scott/Jean is that they. are. FRIENDS.

Not that it matters anymore. I quit X-men years ago, then picked it up because of Morrison's promises. He didn't carry through, his execution was dull and wordy to the point of putting me to sleep. I quit after the "Jean makes Scott fall in love with Emma!" plot and only follow it here, in vague hope that someone will stop fucking up the 616 franchise.

Noirsensei notes....

[(Anonymous)]

For years Jean spent every waking day cockteasing Logan, Scott doesn't get just a bit of comeuppance?

Re: Noirsensei notes....

[xdoop.insanejournal.com]

How exactly did Jean 'cocktease' Wolverine?

[04nbod.insanejournal.com]

'Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore'

urrggghh...wife isn't a verb