Strange Academy #1

[lordultimus]

Comments

[zachbeacon]

"Try not to die". I will always appreciate that, in Strange's quest to protect the world, he's never once considered not being an asshole. Okay, granted its mostly because the Strange that exists in my head is the Titan Up the Defense version.

Also, those guest teachers ... wow. I'm not super familiar with Alpha Flight lore but Shaman always stuck me as a decent enough guy. Nico doesn't really seem experienced enough to teach (but I guess a Jennifer Kale lacks name recognition). I really wouldn't trust any of the others around children; two of them are literal demon lords and there's usually a 50/50 chance Wanda is under the influence of one.

[agharta75]

And where's Senor Magico?

[stubbleupdate]

I do remember somebody promising that they had plans for senor Magico after Power Man and Iron Fist, but I don't recall him showing up

apparently he was in Deadpool and Contagion. what's Contagion?

[agharta75]

Senor Magico won't be a teacher at the school, but all the kids there will be hanging out at his shop, where he tells them how magic works in the _real_ world.

[malitia]

Contagion was a 5 (6?) issue mini/pseudo-event last year nobody cared about.

[cainofdreaming]

Was it the one with the symbiote symbiotes? Whatever those were called.

[malitia]

As far I remember tt had aggressive fungus and fungi-zombie things and involved mostly street level heroes.

[thediiem]

And Doctor Druid?

[zachbeacon]

I mean, despite having a great character hook in his "Doctor Droom" days (posing as a sceptic to cover up the supernatural) he's really just become the poor man's Strange.

[beyondthefringe]

Druid is busy over in the pages of Doctor Strange being weird. :)

[cainofdreaming]

Is he still pissed over Strange having given him magical migraine that one time?

[kamino_neko]

I mean, there's multiple demons among the students, including Dormammu's son, so I don't think they're particularly judgy about that whole bit of genetics.

[zachbeacon]

There's a pretty big difference between a demon and a demon lord. Isn't Clea technically a demon?

[bruinsfan]

I don't think Dormammu or Umar are technically demons, just powerful evil inhuman sorcerers. I don't recall either being involved in any sort of afterlife, for example, and while they receive power from their Dark Dimension subjects/worshipers I don't think they're parasitically dependent on them the way demons are supposed to be.

[zachbeacon]

I mean, I was genuinely asking because I'm a little fuzzy on what gods and demons actually ARE in the MU. Seriously, what's the difference between Hela and Dormammu? They're both powerful beings who run hellish locations (worlds, planes, dimensions, whatever)

Do you need to live in an afterlife to be a demon? I mean, the Darkforce Dimension is full of things I'd call demons but I never really saw it as a place for the dead (aside from the Cloak and Dagger show). The only dead people I know of there are Blackout (NOT the demon) and Genis Vell but their bodies were dumped there; I always assumed their souls were elsewhere. Or maybe Zemo disposing of Genny's body is a fluke and otherwise the DD is a power source and afterlife for people with darkness powers kinda like DC's speedforce.

[cygnia]

What is the cosmology of Marvel!Hell to Marvel!Limbo?

[beyondthefringe]

Confusing at any given time.
Limbo is kind of like an offset of some version of Hell, in that it exists outside of normal time and space, and was under the influence of Belasco, an actual demon lord/evil sorcerer, and it's filled with demons and tends to corrupt its inhabitants.

But then again, this Limbo may or may not be associated with the one to which Rom banished the Dire Wraiths, and/or the one inhabited by Space Phantoms.

Marvel likes to keep us guessing.

[lordultimus]

Don't forget about Immortus.

[zachbeacon]

I think his Limbo is different from Magik's Limbo.

[beyondthefringe]

I think Immortus' Limbo is the same as where the Space Phantoms come from.

[zachbeacon]

IIRC Avengers Forever confirmed it.

[zachbeacon]

Marvel cosmology in general is a mess. Is Thor a god? An extraterrestrial alien? And extradimensional alien? Some combination of those?

Is Mythological Thor the same being? An earlier incarnation? Are you sure you're not confusing the Thor of legend with INSERT ETERNAL HERE?

(Okay, I think that last one is more of a Hercules thing)

[crinos]

Yeah, and it really only matters if you actually bother to remember Gilgamesh is a thing. And no one does.

And you think that's bad, who is the devil in the Marvel universe? Is it Mephisto? Is it Daimon Helstrom's dad? Because Mephisto isn't his daddy (I don't think). Is Daimon's dad the same Satan who empowered Claire Voyant the first Black Widow back in the golden age? What about the Satan Captain America beat the shit out of in the Golden age?

[zachbeacon]

Gilgamesh! That's his name! I forgot.

(I swear I'm not doing a bit. I really forgot The Forgotten One)

My own personal interpretation is that "the Devil" is less a name used by a specific fallen angel and more a title given to whichever demon is currently on top. I'm not sure that the comics back me up or if it's just headcannon.

Also, isn't the identity of Helstrom's dad another thing that keeps changing?

[crinos]

Hey its okay you forgot Gilgamesh. The only reason I remembered him is because I was talking about him on another messageboard recently.

I mean, in terms of Demigods/Mythic figures who are super heroes at Marvel, Gilgamesh kind of gets lost in the shuffle. I mean in terms of relevance on top we have Thor (Because of course) then we have Hercules, then we have Sersi and Venus, and then we have Gilgamesh bringing up the rear.

[cainofdreaming]

Remind me, was Gilgamesh also going by Beowulf at some point? Because Thor used that name too.

[zachbeacon]

Its like the superhero version of that crap Vandal Savage pulls."No really, I was [insert historical figure here]. Never mind that I look nothing like they were described in art and historical records"

Worst. Villain. Ever.

As an aside, Grendel's Mom is real in the MU since she showed up in the Genis-Era Captain Marvel series. You'd think she'd be able to clear up who Beowulf really was.

[cainofdreaming]

She reappeared in Scream - Curse of Carnage. Though she's now less Grendel's mommy, but rather his sibling as they're both symbiote 'dragons'.

Edit- And in that the flashback showed that at least on that occasion it was Thor playing Beowulf.

[crinos]

I think in his debut they mentioned that Gilgamesh was a bunch of different mythical heroes throughout the ancient world. Including Hercules.

I generally assume that what happened was that Hercules, Gilgamesh and Thor were all running around the ancient world at roughly the same time and sometimes they got mixed up for one another since there was no mass media at the time so people had trouble differentiating between the big beefy guys based on word of mouth.

I imagine there was a Samson in there too but he probably got lost in the shuffle.

[zachbeacon]

Maybe Makkari (hero of the Golden Age) should be "The Forgotten One"

[kamino_neko]

My own personal interpretation is that "the Devil" is less a name used by a specific fallen angel and more a title given to whichever demon is currently on top. I'm not sure that the comics back me up or if it's just headcannon.

That's canon in the DCU.

Marvel I'm less sure on...checking the wiki, there's not much on 'the devil', but 'Satan' is mentioned as an alias used by a whole slew of demons (and non-demons*) who are cashing in on the notoriety of the name in order to impress/intimidate humans.

* Loki claimed the name at least once, leading to the hilarious disambiguation 'Son of Satan (Son of Loki)'.

[zachbeacon]

And Hela (who also kinda the devil) is her own grandma...sorta?

(Man that JiM series was great)

With DC I mostly just saw it as a bunch of demons bickering over the power vacuum Lucifer left when he stepped down (stepped up?) though i think they technically have three rulers at any given time.

[kamino_neko]

though i think they technically have three rulers at any given time.

Not in the main universe since 1995, when Neron was revealed to have taken over.

I'm not clear on who the current Devil is, but it looks like it's the djinni Elias (the brother of Djinn of the Teen Titans - but I'm behind on that, so I'm not sure if the current arc taking them into Hell, as per the wiki, is a sign that Djinn calling Elias the devil is literal, or just that he's there)...

[bruinsfan]

The current Lucifer series has ignored the previous two and established the angels Remiel and Duma from The Sandman as the sitting rulers of Hell. Of course Hell's a big place, and demons lie all the time, so there are probably several claiming to occupy the throne with no one they encounter on Earth privy to evidence otherwise.

[kamino_neko]

I'm way behind on that, too, so I don't know how it's playing it, but from how Season of Mists ended, it seemed like the demons were going to basically ignore the non-fallen Angels...so, I'd imagine it's not just the living humans who don't know or care that they're nominally in charge, but the demons and damned, as well, and basically the old hierarchy being maintained, with some lip service to Remiel when he decides to pop down and try to micromanage or comfort the damned.

But Hell is, as you say, a big place, so it could easily be balkanized with a dozen different Devils claiming the title, with different numbers of demons recognizing them.

[bruinsfan]

I recall some really poorly written Hellcat story decades ago that tried to make Hellstrom Satannish's son (and Dormammu's grandson? WTF?) instead, but that was quickly retconned. He's pretty consistently been portrayed as the son of the demon that calls itself Satan, even if Marvel is hesitant to establish that as the Biblical Adversary. (Said demon is definitely distinct from Mephisto, Satannish, and Thog, who all appeared on-panel alongside it in Defenders #100.)

[cainofdreaming]

It gets worse when you consider that originally the Devil who made Blaze into Ghost Rider was also the same one that was Daimon's daddy. And now one's Mephisto and the other Marduk Kurios.

[cdamascus]

Gillen pretty much straightened all that out in Journey into Mystery though. Basically there's a lot of Hell-Lords, but none of them are the "real" Satan, who has been missing for millenia, but they all claim to be the one from time to time.

[crinos]

Okay that works for me.

Meanwhile DC the original king of Hell was Etrigan, who got banished when Lucifer took over, who then abdicated to run a night club, and now I think Neron rules Hell.

[kamino_neko]

No, the original was The First of the Fallen. Etrigan wasn't even one of the Fallen (like the First, Lucifer, Azazel, Beelzebub...), thus the ability for Merlin to be his half-brother. I wasn't reading The Demon during the run where Etrigan became king, but as I understand it he deposed Lucifer (briefly). (It's not clear from the wiki where this fits relative to the whole abdication thing.)

As for Neron, he hasn't ruled Hell since being deposed by Satanus and Blaze in Reign in Hell, and in the current continuity hasn't been shown to be anything but a demon of middling power (and a ridiculous haircut).

The current Devil is a djinni named Elias (yeah, I've finally gotten caught up enough on Teen Titans to see him explicitly referred to literally as such).

[liliaeth]

Well Warren Ellis wrote a series called Hellstorm a few years ago, and in it he made it clear that multiple demons share the name 'Satan' amongst them. Basically whichever highranking demon wants to use it, gets to do so.

[shakalooloo]

In the current Ghost Rider run, Limbo and Hell are more or less at war, with Belasco making Danny Ketch his Spirit of Corruption to fight Johnny Blaze, King of Hell.

The first issue had a two-page spread outlining all the different Marvel Hells and their relationships. It contained an amusing typo that referred to Cerberus as a three-LEGGED dog.

The distinct Hells of Marvel are:

Hell
Limbo
Niffleheim
The Eighth City
The Below-Place
Sominus
The Dark Dimension
Hades
The Brimstone DImension

[jaxjyls]

What makes Emily different from a mutant?

[chalicother]

I am guessing you can be both with Scarlet Witch counted as part of the staff.

[crinos]

That kind of reminds me of Gwen from Ben 10,

Early on: I'm a magic user who learned magic from a spellbook I stole from some evil wizards.

Later: Oh it turns out I'm not magic, one of my grandparents is an alien an I have her powers.

Later than that: Actually it turns out I'm an alien who can do magic because I'm descended from an energy being whose literally MADE of magic.

[cygnia]

With Magik also on board, those staff meetings are gonna be awkward...

[malitia]

No X-gene (as we know off). Not setting off the Cerebro. Mutant powers generally manifest later and are generally more limited (except for freaking reality warpers; not shown in the scans but she at one point resurrects that dog).