NS: Loki Season 1 Discussion

[cyberghostface]

For those who watched it, what did you think of Loki?

In my opinion it’s the best of the MCU shows so far if only because of Tom Huddleston who has consistently been one of the highlights of the MCU. He does a great job and the show manages to add new facets to his character that will hopefully be explored further.

Without spoiling anything I will also say this is probably the first MCU series that I think will become important to future films in terms of what it sets up and introduces. I was a bit surprised at how deep it got given how minor the past two series were in the grand scheme of things.

Comments

[thanekos]

I love all the " the TVA's just the Bureau from Control " discourse.

[deh_tommy]

So has Alan Wake turned to writing comics now?

[lucean]

While I did like the final confrontation of the show and Kang's actor was simply amazing, for me the final episode highlighted a lot of the flaws of the show. It was built around this deep, fundamental connetion between Loki and Sylvia, expect they only first interacted in episode three with the first two episodes building up the sudden friendship between Loki and Mobius, which was then pretty much rushed. It didn't feel any of the emotional beats were earned, instead they were just rushed off.

And as a pre-emptive defense on the common note that of course Loki would fall in love with himself, the problem with that Sylvia is nothing like main!Loki. So the sudden meeting of the souls just felt incredibly lazy, formulaic storytelling. Just like Loki/Mobius and Mobius/Renslayer. However, having written that, I will admit that the actors were giving it their all to make it work.

[laughing_tree]

With each of the three shows, I started off really loving it but my enthusiasm dimmed over time. Does the MCU approach just work a lot better in short bursts?

[ebailey140]

Judging from the ratings, the shows are doing well. But, it's impossible to please everyone.

[shakalooloo]

The final episode was a little over-packed with Kangsposition, and we don't have the slightest clue about where Renslayer has gone. Leaving stuff open for season 2 is all well and good, but the slightest hint might be nice?

Biggest disappointments are the lack of a post-credits waterski scene, or some crazy fight scene involving Miss Minutes.

Overall I liked it, but whereas the other Marvel shows benefitted from the lowered episode count, this one felt like it was the pilot, mid-season climax and season finale episodes of a longer show, and a few more non-main plot related time investigations would have bulked things out a little.

[lucean]

You know, this show felt like it was written for a longer season. I know that the episode count was set from the start, but that just confused me as the plot beats were just crazy rushed.

It also made the waste of time that was episode 3 make that much worse later.

[shakalooloo]

So much stuff was packed into the first two episodes, and then episode three did... what it did, and even had the nerve to end on a cliffhanger that was resolved in an inevitable way within seconds of the next episode starting. We knew the TVA would catch 'em again, so just have that as the ending, and have the entire story of that moon self-contained.

Hunter B-15's quest to prove to her comrades their status could have been a whole sub-plot, but instead she gets one scene in the final episode which ends up meaning nothing since the timeline got reset or somesuch anyway!

Glad that I'm not the only one feeling like things were a little TOO compressed in this instance

[mazway_75]

I got that feeling, not sure if budget or COVID restrictions maybe affecting it like other shows.

[iamrman]

I was really disappointed with the final episode. Too much talk and not enough payoff. Mind you, nothing could match up to the fun of Crocki.

[onsokumaru]

Only the episodes #4 and #5 made it for me.
The rest of the time, it was juts talk, talk and exposition. Also I didn't care enough about Loki or Sylvie to be entertained by their interactions.
And I sure hope we get a less annoying version of Kang for Ant-Man & the Wasp.

[shakalooloo]

Given the villain pedigree of the last two Ant-Man movies, I don't hold out much hope of Kang being afforded much gravitas in Quantumania! But given that we have infinite versions of him now, whatever goofy time-thief we get there can safely be killed off without having any impact on the main villain that will inevitably face down the Young Avengers in their movie.

[werehawk]

Yeah, I was wondering if he would play Kang very differently next time. Like a serious MFing Kang. Which would be hilarious in its own way.

[scorntx]

First thoughts: Making Immortus slightly goofy was definitely a choice, I guess? (even if there is an explanation, it's random.)
As is the change to Ravonna's origin, but I suppose that it is at least in keeping with the character's history of being convoluted.

Second thoughts:
Well, Loki, you managed to break literally everything everywhere. Good job.
Hope season 2 brings Croki back. So long as it's not to suddenly and arbitrarily kill him, as seems to happen with Lokis.

Not really sure about the rest of the show, actually.

[shakalooloo]

Being alone in a castle at the end of all time while observing everything that ever happens or could have happened probably drove Kang a little batty and eroded his social skills a bit.

[tinygaylaura]

I wonder if it was inspired by the nutty version of Immortus who appeared in the X-men animated series

[scorntx]

This presumes Kang has social skills to begin with.
And given what most versions of him tend to be like...

[zachbeacon]

The Miss Minutes stuff just made me think about Bravely Default. Never trust a fairy or an alicorn.

I assumed it was Immortus

Immortus makes sense to me as a comic fan (especially with Renslayer and the “Time Keepers” stuff).

Immortus makes sense within the context of setting up future MCU projects like Ant-Man 3.

Immortus doesn’t make sense within the context of this series though. If you don’t know he’s the older version of the bad guy from a movie that hasn’t come out yet then the reveal comes out of nowhere.

It should have been a Future Renslayer or a Variant Loki.

(Where IS Renslayer now? I assume she's following up on whatever info Immortus gave her via Miss Minutes)

Also really annoyed with the implication that Sylvie is now running the TVA while using Immortus as a figurehead like he did with the Time Keepers. I really wouldn’t have expected her to be the type to say “this oppressive fascist dictatorship sucks but everything would be fine with me in charge”.

I really wanted to see Moebius and Hunter B-15 burn everything to the ground and now they’ve been reset. I was hoping we’d see Wilson and Rudd interact in Ant-Man 3.

I’m genuinely curious what they’re planning to do with Loki. WandaVision and F&tSW telegraph Wanda and Sam’s futures hard but I have no idea where this leaves Loki. Is he going to try to stop Kang in Ant-Man 3? Is he going to cause mischief in Thor 4? Is he really going to stay on the bench until Loki season 2 … whenever that is?

[shakalooloo]

I don't think Sylvie took over. The choice that Kang offered was to take his place or to kill him, implying that if one did the latter the former was off the table - that's why the Lokis had that fight. Since killing Kang respawned all his past variants, presumably it also broke apart his accomplishments and there is no role of his to usurp.

I took the openly displayed statue of Kang at the nu TVA to mean that a less benevolent, more prideful and overt Conquror has founded the organisation instead, and it is he that openly controls it.

[mastermahan]

That was my assessment as well. Sylvie was clear about having no interest in controlling the TVA.

Mind, I'm not sure what the nu TVA is supposed to do, but that's for next season.

[zachbeacon]

I thought about that but I can't see a new Kang taking over without a Kang War.

And if you're not going to show the Kang War then what's even the point?

[shakalooloo]

Well, we'll have Quantumania to showcase a little of the Kang War, I guess. And given that there' s now a nmultiverse again, presumably there are multiple TVAs across different realities, many controlled by different Kangs. The variants will be the footsoldiers in his conquests.

[zachbeacon]

Now that I’ve had a moment to think about it, I wonder if the TVA will constantly be under new management without knowing because the Kang running the place keeps getting overthrown by a worse Kang.

You know, just when you think it can’t be more of a hellish bureaucracy they have to deal with policies that keep changing.

[werehawk]

Kinda like any federal government. The US goes from blue Kang to red Kang like every 4-12 years.

[zachbeacon]

I mean when you see a new leader take power, you sort of expect changes. Since I assume Kangs are mostly identical and its in the best interest of the current He Who Remains to not to let anyone he can be overthrown*, its just going to look like one person behaving increasingly erratically ... assuming they can remember how the previous Kang ran things.

*Unless they're looking to be "retired" like Immortus was.

[cricharddavies]

I liked it just fine until I found out you liked it, now it's clearly shit.

[quatoria]

Jesus, really with this?

Mod Note!

[icon_uk]

Cut it out with both personal harrassment and picking fights with someone you already know you don't get along with.

Let me be clear that if you do this again, it will lead to a second Formal Warning.

[janegray]

I have a question.

I haven't watched this show because villain protagonists make me uncomfortable (it's why I never touched Breaking Bad even though the whole planet was screaming that it was the greatest show ever made). Loki just led an attack on New York which killed countless people, and personally murdered a bunch of innocents (in gruesome ways, too, such as the guy who got his eyes torn out), so I figured I wouldn't personally enjoy watching it and skipped it.

But today I heard that... apparently Loki was brainwashed in the Avengers movie? Controlled or something? And he had been tortured to force him into joining the attack on Earth?

Could somebody clarify? How responsible is Loki for those crimes exactly?

[cyberghostface]

“But today I heard that... apparently Loki was brainwashed in the Avengers movie? Controlled or something? And he had been tortured to force him into joining the attack on Earth?”

Him being tortured is I think fanon but the official Marvel guide said the mind stone in the scepter Loki was using was influencing his behavior and fueling his hatred. I guess it’s kind of like how the symbiote made Spider-Man more villainous in various adaptations.

[janegray]

Hum...

Ok. I'll think it over. Thank you!

[mastermahan]

Mind, Loki being influenced by the Mind Stone has never made into any of the movies or shows. Loki makes no mention of it and treats Loki as responsible for his own actions, so it's debatable how canon that is.

[shakalooloo]

It's kind of a meta-canon, since Loki was awkwardly pasted into a story that had already been developed around the villain being the Red Skull. They added a few jokes and touches of flair, but the basic story of a will-crushing dictator being released from the cosmic cube isn't really his schtick.

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, its basically handwaving the most OOC Loki appearance via Word of God without actually explaining it on screen.

[leahandillyana]

Loki being tortured is VERY likely given that Thanos casually tortures his own children. That said, as great of a story Loki is (and I think it's third or fourth best MCU production period, after Black Panther, Winter Soldier and maaaaaaaaybe Civil War), it greatly disappointed me in never adressing Loki attempting a genocide on Jotumheim - and as the subject was never again adressed, it's possible he succeeded.

[shakalooloo]

If it makes you feel a bit better, Loki isn't immediately forgiven for what he's done. He does go through a lot of punishment.

[zachbeacon]

Also even when he is trying to do the right thing*, his past actions leave some people unable to trust him so I buy this character redemption arc a lot more than what we've recently seen in stuff like She-Ra and Star Wars.

*The actual morality is debatable but he THINKS it's right.

[mazway_75]

I liked it, can understand other's frustrations but enjoyed the stuff of Loki accepting what he is, wanting to change but unsure how he could. I join the chorus that it feels like it was meant for at least 8 episodes and somehow cut down.

The Sylvie stuff also great and interesting if she fully embraces the Enchantress motif in season 2. And the Kang bits also good as a better way to set him up than a movie.

It was HIddelston carrying it all and did a beautiful job and was interesting the setups.

Look, at the end of the day we got the Thanos Copter, Throg and Richard E. Grant in the Kirby costume. I'll call that a win of a series.

[tinygaylaura]

On the whole I enjoyed this series a lot

I do agree that the ending felt a little like they tried to fit too much into one episode but I still liked it.

Hiddleston is always great in the role so it was nice to see him get to play Loki again.

Sylvie is a great addition to the MCU and I loved the episode with the multiple Loki's. Mobius was sweet. I am sad we never got to see him ride a jet ski this season tho :(

I liked the quirkyness of the show and I was very happy with the reveal of Kang/Immortus being behind the TVA and this setting up future stuff for next season and the MCU in general as well.

I hope the shows creative team are telling the truth that we might be seeing Loki with a boyfriend in season two now that it's been established MCU Loki is bisexual.

I need more Croki

[owlbrigade1]

I felt it was kinda rushed, like they had to rattle through the story to set up the multiverse for Doctor Strange 2, and Quantumania. I'd have preferred a longer season, with some breather episodes to build character interaction as they worked on something without much of a connection to the through story. A couple more episodes of Loki and Mobius doing some TVA investigations, another couple of extra of Sylvie's and Loki's interactions in various apocalypses before the big asteroid one, and a couple with the League of Lokis, to give us a feel for life in the void and the stakes of leaving it. And maybe even just a couple with Rennslayer and Hunter B15 to establish the TVA more too.

Hunter B15 definitely did not earn any form of redemption, since we were introduced to her being a petty little sadist in her duties, gleefully using her authority to dispense pain and humiliation. So a few episodes focusing on her and seeing some internal conflict and-or hidden depths would have made her flipping on the TVA a better set. Personally, I felt that if there was one character who had truly earned villain status through their actions, way more than Rennslayer or Kang, it was Hunter B15. Alas the writers disagreed.

Also I'd have liked a little more closure on the finale, rather than the whole season being nothing more than a set up for the next season. It is something Amazon and Netflix used to do, but both of those have got a lot better about that, so it is a shame that D+ is getting in on that old vibe.

[zachbeacon]

Totally agree on the lack of a satisfying conclusion. The other two shows may have also been commercials for the future projects but at least they told a complete story. Loki just kinda ends.

Completely disagree on Hunter B15.

Everyone at the TVA (except for the evil clock) is a victim of Immortus’ manipulation and shouldn’t be held responsible for their actions prior to learning the truth*.

If anything B-15’s willingness to reject what the TVA made her is a major point in her favor.

…unlike Renslayer, who went all in on the Stockholm syndrome.

Meanwhile, once he got past the denial, Moebius just wanted to burn it all to the ground. I’m really not sure if Loki was a good influence or a bad influence but he was clearly an influence.

*Edit: That one guy didn't even know what a fish is. These are not people making informed decisions.