NS: Jack Kirby’s New(?) Gods

[deh_tommy]

Eternals is out now in cinemas worldwide! Have you seen the movie? What did you think? Did you like the film? Dislike the film? Do you care to see this or no? Feel free to discuss below, and as always be wary of spoilers.

Comments

[arilou_skiff]

I enjoyed it. But I can also see why people (and especially critics) wouldn't. It's both different enough from the usual MCU fare and very much the usual MCU fare, it has some ropey things on a filmic level (the plotline with the deviant felt way underused, Druig was noticeably a much worse actor than the rest of the gang to the point where it grated, the comedy sidekick wasn't very funny)

But they did a good job of introducing a large cast and having you care about them, a few scenes (Tiamat waking up, Arishem dropping in for a chat at the end) were jaw-dropping. It was grade A Kirbyesque cosic space nonsense and I'm hear for it. (just sad the glowing kirby brain was only in the diagram and not when they actually formed the Uni-Mind)

One thing someone pointed out: The movie starts with an opening crawl but everything in the opening crawl is a lie.

Also, Dane Whitman. AND a reference to the Ebony Blade.

[lordy_co]

I quite liked it! It subverts a lot of "Marvel tropes" (I suppose we call them that way by now), has an fitting epic story and the dynamic between the characters is very good. You can really believe they ARE a family, with all the good and bad that entails.

But it's also far from perfect: you could excise the Deviant plot without hurting the overall story, and the way the flashbacks are built is also a bit...odd, though they're all very beautiful.

Speaking of beautiful, the cast is great. Jolie, Madden, Keoghan and the kid playing Sprite are all amazing at their roles, and again the whole ensemble just fits togehter. My final complaint is with regards to our main character, Sersi. She's VERY vanilla; very passive, with not much on the movie happening because of her. At least Gemma Chan is back, so I hope the MCU will find better stories for her to work with.

All in all, a solid 8/10, and probably one of my favourites within the MCU as a whole.

[deh_tommy]

Hoo boy, this movie’s probably gonna tick a good few people off. I really wanted to like this one, and that started off pretty neat, but I think that goes downhill once they leave London and while there are occasional highs, that’s overall pretty uneven and could have benefitted from being a bit tighter. The placement of the flashbacks were weird, characters just disappear for long stretches of time (heck, Kumail Ninjiani and his director friend just disappear from the movie outright at the 2/3rds mark), and once the real plot kicks in the Deviants just become a nuisance (like, oh right, there’s Deviants here).

•Maybe that’s because I was playing Final Fantasy XIII over the Summer, but did anyone else get JRPG vibes? There’s a whole party, they’ve all got their own quirks, they slay a variety of monsters, and the plot particularly reminded me of FFXIII with how the monsters were also created by the machine gods, that turns out the big haven for humanity is really a slaughterhouse designed to get as many people together as possible and then kill them all off to wake up this other sleeping god, our heroes goal is to ensure this comes to pass, they’re put into stasis when their destiny is completed until they’re needed again and their ultimate goal is to defy fate and find a better way that just ends up being the classic kill god trope.

•Is there any reason why Kumail Ninjiani and his friend just straight-up disappear from the movie at the 2/3rds mark?

•I rather liked just about everyone for the most part, though my opinion on Sprite soured as I got through the movie, Druig creeped me out to no end and I was never too keen on Icarus. And I swear, between Invincible, Brightburn, The Boys and now this, I’m pretty darn tired of evil Superman.

•So, like, how much influence did the Eternals have over human mythology? Because we get a credits montage implying a lot of people and stories inspired or were involved with, and their names obviously evoke preexisting myths and legends (like, Thena is definitely 100% Athena), and the deviants resemble beasts like gryphons and great wolves and what have you... but magic is undeniably real and so are magical creatures as shown in Shang-Chi, and there was also an entire pantheon of Norse gods running around. Did Circe inspire Jesus? Was Faustus really Maui? Did he ever have a run-in with Mephisto or something to cause that titular story? Was Gilgamesh really that terrified of dying? Is Arishem meant to be the definitive creator god of all religions? How much actually happened, how much was just Sprite making stuff up and how much didn’t involve the Eternals?

•What was the point of that sex scene? If Eternals can’t breed and are... well, eternal, incapable of evolution, why did Arishem give them working sex organs and a sex drive? Heck, why do they even have genders at all? The director said this was a “mature love story”, but I was rooting more for Sirsi to hook up with that Dane fellow than I was for her and Ikarus, you don’t need sex for a “mature” romance.

•If the Deviants were evolving, how come Arishem didn’t just let them be? The Eternals are clearly intelligent and capable of free will,, why not just fill a whole planet with Eternals instead of slaughtering innocent species?

•Did... did the Eternals convince Tiamat to kill herself? They said she was connected to their unimind as well, did she converse with them?

•Is that bad I didn’t make the connection between Dane and the Black Knight until the end of the movie? Speaking of the ending, who was that voice offscreen? Kang?

•STARFOX!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY

Honestly, I think the best thing about the movie is probably the LEGO sets. They look really, really cool.

[alliterator]

"What was the point of that sex scene? If Eternals can’t breed"

Why would you assume that Eternals can't breed? In the comics, Thanos is the son of two Eternals.

[deh_tommy]

In the comics, sure, but by the movie’s account Eternals are essentially robots specifically crafted with the express purpose of being unable to grow or evolve. That’s partly why Sprite was so angsty. The only child of an Eternal we do see or hear mention of is presumably adopted and probably human.

[alliterator]

In the comics, the Eternals don't grow or evolve either, hence why Sprite ALSO became a bad guy in the comics. But just because they don't grow, doesn't mean they can't have children. Again, Thanos is the child of two Eternals -- and in the post-credits scene in Eternals, we see Eros, Thanos's brother. Which indicates that he might have the same origin in the MCU, considering none of the other Eternals had siblings.

Also, asking the point of sex if a person can't get pregnant is silly. Lots of people have sex without wanting to get pregnant.

[deh_tommy]

A cursory glance at wiki sites tells me the Eternals group featured in the film are all the children of other Eternals and their race as a whole came about from the Celestials meddling with humans, and they just age really, really slowly. In the movie, however, every Eternal was constructed directly by Arishem in a forge and they literally do not age. We don’t know enough about Starfox yet, so we don’t know if he’s his biological brother, his step-brother or his brother in arms.

I’m not asking why do Ikaris and Sersi (or however you spell their names) have sex if they’re not making babies, I’m asking why did Arishem bother to program sex drives into them at all? To bond?

[cricharddavies]

I’m asking why did Arishem bother to program sex drives into them at all?
He didn't.

Arishem created the Deviants to do one thing. They did another. Arishem created the Eternals to do one thing. They did another. Arishem is every bit as flawed as his creations.

[alliterator]

"A cursory glance at wiki sites tells me the Eternals group featured in the film are all the children of other Eternals"

Then you didn't really look close enough: most Eternals are not born, they are made. Yes, they have parents, but they were not born Eternals: they and their parents were made into Eternals by the Celestials. The only Eternals that were born Eternals were Thanos and Eros.

[deh_tommy]

If that wasn’t obvious by now, I know absolutely nothing about the Eternals (the ones from Titan, so this movie was my first real exposure to them. I wonder how much of this still applies to the movie’s universe because the implication I got from the film was they were straight-up cosmic robots.

Speaking of which, have you seen the movie yet? What did you think?

[alliterator]

I loved the movie. It streamlined things so it wouldn't be as confusing so, yes, the Celestials literally made them like robots.

[deh_tommy]

*beyond the ones from Titan. No idea how I missed that spelling mistake, but bleh.

[tinygaylaura]

"What kind of idiot builds a robot that you can't fuck?"

[john_wyatt]

"Was Faustus really Maui? Did he ever have a run-in with Mephisto or something to cause that titular story?"

That's a cool idea, but I think his name is spelled Phastos, with the idea being "Hephaestus" came from his name (like Sersi=Circe, Makkari=Mercury, Ikaris=Icarus, Thena=Athena, etc)

[cricharddavies]

And I don't think he was Faust, but I would not be surprised if he helped build railways in 19th century America.

[john_wyatt]

"Speaking of the ending, who was that voice offscreen? Kang?"

The director has confirmed that is Mahershala Ali's debut as Blade.

[tinygaylaura]

Sex isn't for "breeding" sex is for pleasure

If it wasn't why would the orgasm exist?

I really enjoyed the film for the most part. Not as much as I enjoyed Shang Chi but definitely more than I enjoyed Black Widow so it sits at a comfortable spot of my second fave MCU film of the year with lots that I really loved about its story and cast

and I would put Eternals on the list of MCU flicks that I feel like I could happily re-watch multiple times and still enjoy along with films like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Shang-Chi and Thor: Ragnarok

The Lego sets are cool tho. I love me some Lego :)

[deh_tommy]

Probably for the same reason eating feels good - to get people to do it.

I’m surprised they didn’t make more LEGO Shang Chi stuff. How come there’s no superhero fight club or Ten Rings hideout or Dweller In Darkness?

[tinygaylaura]

There should be! I would love Lego sets of all those scenes to build

[mesmiranda]

I say this 100% sincerely: I am shocked, shocked that there is no mention of Thena here.

[mesmiranda]

•Is there any reason why Kumail Nanjiani and his friend just straight-up disappear from the movie at the 2/3rds mark?

The countless hordes of Bollywood fangirls (and fanboys) finally caught up with them. Because seriously. It's Kumail Nanjiani. Tell me he wouldn't have them.

(More seriously, making it a Disney+ series would've given the characters, Kingo and Karun included, way more room to breathe and develop.)

•What was the point of that sex scene?

To tack onto what cricharddavies said, Screenrant has an article here about how it reinforces Ikaris' and Sersi's relationship (which pays off in the finale).

•If the Deviants were evolving, how come Arishem didn’t just let them be? The Eternals are clearly intelligent and capable of free will, why not just fill a whole planet with Eternals instead of slaughtering innocent species?

??? From what I got, Arishem's plan is to seed planets (including Earth) with Celestials, wait until the population hits a certain point and then use that life energy to wake up the Celestial (which explodes the planet in the process, but them's the breaks according to the big guy). The Eternals don't count towards that life energy because according to Sersi, "(they) were never alive." So he kind of needs those innocent species to slaughter to keep the Celestials going, and it just so happened that Earth got picked.

•Did... did the Eternals convince Tiamat to kill herself? They said she was connected to their unimind as well, did she converse with them?

I kind of like to imagine--for maximum angst--that she, too, fell in love with humanity during her time there and didn't want them to go anywhere. She is supposed to be "the Dreaming Celestial," maybe she was at least somewhat aware or conscious.

[lilacsigil]

I've never been interested in the Eternals and it's definitely not going to be high on my list to see now that cinemas are re-opening for the double-vaxxed. I'm pleased for the Kirby fans that they're getting some high-grade Kirby stuff on screens, though, especially after the dire Inhumans show.

[jeyl]

Overall, it was definitely better than the reviews lead on. A LOT better.

However, I grow very weary of this whole 'Humanity is so special'. Was every intelligent species before us who were sacrificed to birth Celestials just not romantic enough? There was an actual debate on who was going to snap half the life in the universe back and Thor, who is not a Human, was very willing to do the deed even if it cost him his life. What makes Humans 'human' isn't exactly exclusive to Humans at this point now that alien characters have shown more Humanity than a lot of actual Human characters have shown.

[dcbanacek]

Thor wanting to do the "Snap" was more him trying to atone for his failing to kill Thanos when he had the chance and instead "going for the pain" at the "Battle of Wakanda".

[jeyl]

Yeah. I can see why Thor risking his life to atone for a mistake isn't as noble as simply having the right amount of resistance to gamma radiation.

[leahandillyana]

Most unneeded of Marvel films.

[mazway_75]

Mixed. I liked performances and such and did like how it undercut some expectations. You think Dane is going to be audience surrogate into things but nope, they cut the non-super powered being out of it. Or Kingo bowing out of the final battle and NOT coming back at last minute yet popping up again at the end.

It was the little bits I loved like Kingo posing as five generations of an "acting dynasty" or Sprite's Peter Pan/Tinkerbell comparison. Overall, it had its moments, won't say a bad movie but can understand why it's polarizing to others.

[cyberghostface]

I thought it was good. It felt overlong but it was better than a few other Marvel films like Captain Marvel or the last two Thor films. I’m a bit surprised at the negative reaction.

[mesmiranda]

I’m a bit surprised at the negative reaction.

Same here. I just checked the Rotten Tomatoes critic score and ironically, it's sitting at 46%--an average of 5.6 out of 10, which is just average. The audience score is sitting at a solid 80%.

I really hope this doesn't kick Chloe Zhao in the pants, or that the studio decides "No more experimentation, we're done."

[cyberghostface]

They just gave Chloe a Star Wars film so fortunately she’s doing alright.

[mesmiranda]

I immediately ran to Google to check which one, because heck yeah!, and it says the Hollywood Reporter is saying "no." Ugh, this feels like a rehash of the Rian Johnson situation :(

[mesmiranda]

I'm always... well, not really surprised, but mildly taken aback, I guess, when you have these "controversial SJW" movies that get review-bombed and treated like "the most horrible thing EVAR" and then you see them and they're... competent, at worst? The Last Jedi and the 2016 Ghostbusters film were fun popcorn flicks, IMO, a good way to kill an afternoon, and I haven't seen Captain Marvel but I'm guessing it's decent as well.

I felt the same way I did about this one as I did about Dune. Top-notch cinematography, great performances, a bit long in places but overall very solid. My major complaint is that there's too much good stuff going on--Sersi's journey to being a leader, her and Dane's relationship, Druig and Makkari's relationship, Druig being a quasi-cult leader (and how Makkari takes it), Phastos and his relationship with Ben and Jack, Gilgamesh and Thena together, Ajak in general, Kingo in general (and especially Karun!), even Kro--and none of it really gets a chance to shine, to the point where I think it would have made a better Disney+ series than, potentially, Hawkeye.

Also if anything happens to Phaistos or Makkari I will go to my nearest Home Depot and find a pitchfork and then I will take a flight down to Marvel Studios in (I'm guessing?) California and wave it at the front of the buildings. I'm not sure how I'm accomplishing this, but it will be done!

Also also, did Sersi ever tell Dane she loved him back? I get that Ikaris and Sersi have thousands of years of history on him, but Sersi's attitude towards Dane kind of felt like a little more like "awww, that's sweet" than "I love you, too!" Not saying that's a bad thing, just interesting/I was wondering about that.

Also also also (rot13 for spoilers): Fbzr zbgureshpxnf ner nyjnlf gelvat gb vpr fxngr hcuvyy! Fb, FB rkpvgrq gb frr Znurefunyn Nyv nf Oynqr, lbh unir ab vqrn. Naq Xvg Unevatgba vf whfg ubarfgyl snagnfgvp, pna'g jnvg gb frr uvz rvgure!

...wait, who’s Kro?

[deh_tommy]

I really shouldn’t be shocked given the team’s lineup, but are people trying to pull that whole thing with this movie as well? Sigh...

That’ll be weird seeing someone other than Wesley Snipes in the role, he’s got big shoes to fill (let’s just forget Trinity happened). And while I’m a sucker for puns and dual-meanings, I think I’d be a little miffed if Blade was a buddy-cop movie between Black Knight and Blade instead of just letting Blade himself stand alone.

The head Deviant dude! He's voiced by Bill Skarsgard

[mesmiranda]

I really shouldn’t be shocked given the team’s lineup, but are people trying to pull that whole thing with this movie as well? Sigh...

Yuuuuup. I'm pretty sure they try to pull it with any Marvel movie that doesn't feature a white dude named Chris. (Ironically, since Kit is short for Christopher, there is a white dude named Chris in this movie--it fills the quota!)

ROT13 again because I have no idea how you do those spoiler tags: Favcrf tnir uvf oyrffvat gb Nyv ba Gjvggre, juvpu, sernxvat nznmvat. V'z 100 cre prag jvgu lbh ba jnagvat Oynqr gb fgnaq nybar--Nyv vf n oevyyvnag npgbe naq ur'f zber guna pncnoyr bs urnqyvavat n fbyb zbivr--ohg V *pbhyq* nyfb frr uvz naq Qnar univat n sha fanexl qlanzvp nsgre gung. Znlor va gur shgher.