NS: Spider-Man: No Way Home discussion

[cyberghostface]

So this little film came out today. Anyone see it yet? Some spoilery thoughts.

It would be a bigger surprise if they weren’t in it but nevertheless… Tobey and Andrew are back. They’re both fun to watch and they have great chemistry with Tom. Tobey’s the definitive Peter Parker in my eyes and while I thought the TASM films were a misfire it was nice to see Andrew again as the film gives his version of the character some closure.

The villains… well, Willem Dafoe and Alfred Molina were the only ones given much to do (Dafoe was clearly having a lot of fun). Jamie Foxx might as well not even be the same character in TASM2. Lizard and Sandman were both CGI throughout; the latter briefly used archive footage of Thomas Haden Church from Spider-Man 3 so I don’t think Church was even involved here.

It’s generally a lot of a fanservice but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Comments

[owlbrigade1]

It sounds great, I can't wait to see it. I'm going to wait until it hits home release though, no movie is good enough to get me to the cinema right now.

[walkingthroughforest]

Ngl I teared up numerous times. This is the closest we’ll ever get to an actual comic book on screen. 3 different versions of Spider-Man? Everything is canon?

This is the movie I’ve dreamed of and they delivered.

• Willem Dafoe absolutely owned this movie. I would even say his performance is better than the original Spider-Man. It’s incredible that the core of this massive comic book event was one of the best Peter/Goblin stories ever. Having him reprise his role and do it to this level is a double edged sword for Disney, it's impossible to recast that role now. Dafoe is the Goblin as Downey is Stark.

• Garfield was especially fantastic and you could tell how much he cares about this character. Giving him the chance to redeem not only his movies but his Peter was pretty powerful stuff.

• Everyone was going at 100%. Being able to juggle a cast of that size and calibre so well is an incredible achievement.

• I also do love that instead of being part of the Sinister Six, Venom decided to get wasted at a bar in Mexico.

• My only gripe is I wish there was a scene with Tobey’s Spider-Man and Norman. I kept hoping for a scene akin from Superior Spider-Man where Norman realises Peter is back.

• I also guess this answers the Uncle Ben question. It seems he never existed in the MCU.

[werehawk]

I wasn’t even a fan of Dafoe in the old movies. But he killed it. Not wearing the mask was a big part of making him scary as hell in every scene. I kind of wish he had a green tinge to his face to be comics accurate but that might have ruined it.

Ditto, everything you said

[michaelmrt]

Loved this movie. Easily my favorite of the three Holland SM movies and top 5 (maybe top 3) MCU movies. Excellent companion film to Into The Spider-Verse.

Loved everything they did with Garfield and Maguire. Young woman in the row behind me started crying when Garfield 'had a moment' after catching MJ. At least i think she did - I was sobbing so maybe that was just me.

Cannot think of a better way to both move the franchise forward while also rebooting it at the same time.

5 out of 5 from me.

[bravest_spinja]

His performance was definitely better in this one. First, because I think Dafoe has since stretched his already natural talent with his very quiet, internal performances in stuff like Florida Project and At Eternity's Gate. Second, because he got to do more Goblining with his actual face. Third, because I generally think the 2002 Goblin was not a particularly well written character. He has no goals, other than needing to wipe out Spider-Man because he will not join him towards or may thwart his goals which as I said, he does not have.

[werehawk]

The writing was killer. They managed to go back and fix pretty much nearly every writing/directing mistake and loose end for every returning character from the first two "trilogies". And every actor seriously brought their A-game.

[bravest_spinja]

Jamie Foxx's Electro in particular was a "most improved". I think the only ones who didn't top themselves were Molina (there wasn't much he could improve from last time), Simmons (He was in it for only a few minutes and didn't even interact with anyone) and Church (Who probably recorded lines from his couch.)

[tinygaylaura]

I loved that this film gave Foxx's Electro character a better ending than the actual film he appeared in did.

[deepspaceartist]

• I also guess this answers the Uncle Ben question. It seems he never existed in the MCU.

I think it's no so much that Ben didn't exist, there's enough references to him that he definitely did, but that MCU Ben died in such a way that Peter didn't feel directly responsible for causing it. Like MCU Ben died in a car accident or had a heart attack or some other way that isn't 'shot by a criminal Peter decided not to stop'.

[mazway_75]

Amazing work audience going nuts.

What I liked about the ending is it corrects so much about the MCU Spidey. No longer "Iron Man Jr", no real support, just low-tech suit, struggling in job, etc, more the classic Peter we know and love. That's good, needed to get away from more cosmic stuff.

I also liked the touch of Strange having been "demoted" as Sorceror Supreme due to the Blip so that explains his ego compensating to drive him for this.

Just amazing work, didn't expect so much of Maguire or Garfield but so many touches from the talk between them to Garfield saving MJ to make up for Gwen.

Minor complaint, might have been nice to see them back in their own universes to show some stuff (A Dunst as MJ cameo would have been fun) but otherwise hard to argue and curious how it goes from here.

Really, it was all about the trio meeting and in the immortal words of Ian Malcolm "You did it. You crazy son of a bitch, you did it."

[werehawk]

I went on Thursday. Audible gasps and cheers throughout including me with the Garfield reveal. And yeah, Garfield did a great job of redeeming my least favorite on screen Spidey. Showing he is still Peter inside. Sad that Spider-Man’s story has to be tragic or rather finding happiness in tragedy as Peter is a positive person.

[akodo_rokku]

I said, "Oh that's BRILLIANT," out loud when I realized they were moving Peter 1 towards a more classic comics status quo. It also gives them an out if for some insane reason Sony and Disney stop working together on these movies.

[lucean]

Absolutely loved it and easily my favorite Spider-man movie after In to the Spiderverse. It had a lot of heart and seeing the other Spidermen was such a neat moment. It also set Peter up pretty well for the next trilogy and having it transition into the young adult stage of his story as well as why he is in that small apartment making his own costumes.

The MJ's name reveal was actually kind of neat because when it happened, I found it baffling as why make it so complicated. And then then ten minutes later it just hit me that this wasn't Mary Jane, that this wouldn't end with them together, which then created that question of what would happen. And I personally found it satisfactory as the end did set up what Mary Jane would eventually represent in Peter's life.

[werehawk]

I would love a Spider-Man Family movie based on Slott’s Renew Your Vows comics with Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst as parents of a Spidergirl (and all with powers).

[shadadukal]

Seconded. That would be so lovely.

[tinygaylaura]

That would be lovely!

Seems like something Marvel would go for too

[shadadukal]

Tobey and Kirsten are the right age, and it would be something new. I mean, I guess The Incredibles did the superhero family thing but I think it would still feel fresh. Peter and MJ in a relationship juggling being a parent, a couple, superheroics, and a regular job. I'd love to see it.

[tinygaylaura]

Like a better version of Superman and Lois

[shakalooloo]

Disappointed that, amongst all the other crossovers, we never got the team-up between Cloaky and Dummy the robot arm. :(

The first Holland Spider-Man movie that I actually want to see a second time, and the gentle, good-natured ribbing of Garfield and Maguire was pitch-perfect.

[tinygaylaura]

This has been a really good year for MCU movies

Shang Chi, Eternals and now this

And given what we know of what's coming feels like that winning streak will continue

[dewinged]

I've read spoilers since I'm still twitchy about movie theaters.

That ending sounds depressing as hell. Peter loses any support network he had, stability, and a fridging. Doesn't sound like a win to me.

[shakalooloo]

Yeah, I'm not sure how he's going to live now if Peter Parker has been forgotten by everyone that knew him. How does he have any money? Did he break into Aunt May's place to steal back his personal possessions?

Best not to think about it.

[akodo_rokku]

Obviously he'll get a job taking pictures of Spider-Man for DailyBugle.net.

[tinygaylaura]

Jonah wants pictures

Pictures of Spider-Man!

[walkingthroughforest]

However you want to frame your feelings about the ending (which you’re not going to find much support in), you’re being pretty disingenuous by calling May’s death a fridging.

If you think that sort of death is a fridging then I don’t think you understand the term.

[deepspaceartist]

I mean, it's a woman supporting character being killed off for the purpose of causing a man pain, both in terms of the writing and the killer's own motivation for doing it. That's literally the dictionary definition of fridging.

[walkingthroughforest]

Fridging is when the female character only exists to die and fuel the male characters purpose and arc. May dies at the end of the second act with clear motivations and purpose. Her choices drove a good part of the plot. She had a clear story and character arc and her death did not change peters overall purpose of saving the villains.

There’s a lot of fridging that still goes on today (see Deadpool 2), but May’s death was not one of them.

[bravest_spinja]

I don't want to say it it didn't have shades of "fridging, but what a testament to Marisa Tomei's ability to stay preserved that people are using that word, as opposed to the response that's usually met in the countless stories where Aunt May dies (including the universally beloved Into the Spider-Verse which is "Well, old people die. Nothing worth losing sleep(ing with your wife) over." Heck, back in the One More Day days, I bet half the Scans Daily would have pulled the plug.

It's also I think very different in films where actors also sometimes want to just peace out of their franchises. (See Harrison Ford, Anthony Hopkins)

[tinygaylaura]

She is definitely a MILF

Or I guess an AILF

[iamrman]

I haven't seen it yet. I was spoiled by a video on my YouTube recommendations of Tobey Maguire doing the Spider-Man 3 dance on the red carpet. So fuck my life, I guess.

I have to wonder whether the MCU version of Aunt May be revealed to be an actress hired by Norman Osborn?

[tinygaylaura]

"I'm something of a casting director myself"

[tripodeca113]

Now I'm sure some people will be disappointed by the revelation, that this was all just a hoax by the Chameleon (to get back at Tony Stark for killing his father Obadiah Stane) but all the hints were there.

[tinygaylaura]

Stop that at once you'll summon it into being

[skjam]

Dr. Strange stuff.

It appears Mordo was blipped too or Wong would have been the one dealing with his rampage.

Shuma-Gorath!

[tinygaylaura]

SHUMA SHUMA SHUMA GORATH

SHUMA SHUMA SHUMA GORATH

I can't fight this monster

Made of tentacles....

[shakalooloo]

If only we could've gotten the Fox-verse Foggy Nelson to show up.

[tinygaylaura]

Some thoughts

- Dafoe, Molina, Foxx and Ifans killed it in their return appearances here. It was a blast seeing them all reprising the parts and giving us the closest we're ever likely to get to a Spidey vs Sinister Six movie

- It was great to see Ned and MJ get more screen time and honestly losing Zendaya's MJ feels like a huge blow to me. I've loved the adorable weird girl energy she's brought to the role and her and Holland were really sweet together here.

- Tom Holland was amazing, perhaps even spectacular as Spider-Man here. It was great to have a Spider-Man film that felt more like a Spider-Man film and not "Iron Man's sidekick Peter Parker"

- Marissa Tomei was great as Aunt May and like Zendaya as MJ it was both great to see more of her and also feels like a real shame we won't see her in the role again. Also I really loved that when she thought she walked in on Peter and MJ hooking up her only reaction was "Make sure to practice safe sex" like I really didn't expect such a cool sex positive message in a Disney Studios movie but yay

- Dr Strange's scenes were both hilarious and at the end very moving. Maybe Cumberbatch really can act?

- I am a little sad that Venom was just a cameo but I can understand why they went that route. The movie had a LOT to juggle as it was. And the cameo was very funny

- "I'm something of a scientist myself"

I cracked up at that line and so did everyone else in the theatre

- The Lizard being like "Have you got time to hear the good word about BEING TURNED INTO A DINOSAUR MAN" was great. Ifans should play Sauron if we ever get him in the MCU

- Jonah was one of the few negatives I'm going to complain about in this film. I know Jonah has always been kind of a gruff deluded asshole when it comes to Spidey but here it felt like he really crossed the line from irresponsible to downright villainous. And I kind of prefer Jonah as a jerk with a heart of gold and not a jerk with the heart of a jerk

- Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield were fantastic in their roles. I actually heard people in the movie theatre letting out gasps of joy and excitedly going "Oh my god" when they appeared.

- I think they missed a chance by not expanding on the Garfield and Maguire universes by having them reference things that happened after their respective franchises ended. Would have been cool to have references to heroes and villains beyond what we got to see as a nod to how while the films may have ended the story continues

[bravest_spinja]

I really didn't expect such a cool sex positive message in a Disney Studios movie but yay

It should be said, technically it's Sony. (Though I have a theory, Marvel's more...ascetic nature is because Kevin Feige's job used to be like, retrieving Bryan Singer's mail or getting him out of bed to the set and so I think there are parts of his brain that have been severely bleached.)

I don't think this is necessarily the last we'll see of MJ here, but just in case Zendaya and Tom break up again, or she ends up busy winning an Oscar or something, they officially don't have to explain where she went.

[tinygaylaura]

Are Zendaya and Tom Holland dating IRL?

That would explain why they have such cute energy in this film

They feel like that couple who I'd alternate between going "You two are so sweet you are giving me diabetes stop that" and wanting a threesome with

[lordy_co]

Not in a mental state to post a full review, but it was definetely everything I expected it to be and it STILL managed to turn out great. Some weak spots here and there (and just one that I really think is a issue), but all in all an amazing film, probably on my Marvel Top 5.

[juniper6]

Still haven’t seen it, but I went ahead and let myself get spoiled because otherwise it just feels like anxiety to me. We are on staycation the week between Christmas and New Year, so we might go then depending on how we’re feeling about the virus.