Wolverine #19: "The Old Mutant and the Sea"

[alliterator]

What is it about Wolverine that you love so much?

Well, as a squat, smelly, grumpy, hairy, cigar-chomping, whiskey-swigging loner who lives in the frozen North, it doesn't take too much effort to occupy that imaginative space.
-- Ben Percy

With X Lives/X Deaths of Wolverine coming up, I felt we should look at Percy's Wolverine book; specifically, how he characterizes Logan. Which is basically "What if Mike Hammer had adamantium claws." (Or perhaps it's more the Continental Op?) Basically, a lot of the book toys with cynical detective and film noir conventions, no moreso than the last issue, which was brilliantly illustrated by Javier Fernandez.

It's about Logan fighting a whale that's been mutated by one of Krakoa's tumors.

Comments

[silverhammerman]

Love that Javier Fernandez art, this was worth sharing for that alone! I avoided
Wolverine when it launched because I wasn't terribly interested in the vampire plot and I'm not a huge Adam Kubert guy, so I've missed out on this.

Funny, I always assumed that Wolverine couldn't actually recover from something like drowning, since he'd be fully dead long before his healing factor would kick in. I guess the rule of cool applies though, so of course he'd survive it.

The whole tough guy attitude is a little rote, but it's also completely in-character for Wolverine and I like seeing that even while he does whole-heartedly support Krakoa, he can have minor misgivings and nuanced thoughts about it.

[alliterator]

Yeah, I think people skip the Percy books because Percy tends to write Logan as a kind of macho man's man, but it's also very clearly in character for Logan and is played around with by the tone of the solo book (which is clearly very noir and horror driven).

[deh_tommy]

I rather like Benjamin Percy’s Wolverine myself, I was surprised to see so many others don’t.

[tinygaylaura]

"Yeah, I think people skip the Percy books because Percy tends to write Logan as a kind of macho man's man"

That's why I don't buy any of them

The only thing I hate more than "people" like that are the ones who think that the very things that make them worthless trash are somehow some badge of honor. The ones who view their moronic and pathetic lack of anything approaching intelligence, class, culture or sophistication as some Purple Heart of Idiocy. Percy's Wolverine reminds me of the kind of worthless repulsive trash who put confederate flag bumper stickers on whatever piece of shit car their brother who is also their father stole for them

But then I've NEVER liked Wolverine to be honest. He's probably my second least favorite X-men character after Charles Xavier. I've liked VERSIONS of Wolverine in other continuities and I've lived certain writers takes on Wolverine but mostly I just think he's the Poochy of the X-men universe in that writers are desperate to let us know he's One Happening Dude who is Totally In Our Face

[shakalooloo]

It was explicitly stated in Aaron's run that Logan fears drowning because it's the one death he can't come back from (also, swimming with an adamantium-laced skeleton sucks). I guess he got over that.

[alliterator]

I mean, it's explicitly stated in the above pages that he's still afraid of drowning. That doesn't mean he's never going into the water, though.

As for the "one death he can't come back from," I don't know how he would know that. Seriously, it's not like he could test it. (But also, Krakoa has resurrection now, so he probably realizes that if he DID die, they could bring him back.)

[blues32]

He tested it by drowning his son in a puddle. It required the Apocalypse Twins to bring Daken back from the dead, so it worked well enough.

[tinygaylaura]

I like to think that every single thing Rick Remender ever wrote including that hilariously stupid bullshit got erased from continuity when that whole Secret Wars thing happened

[scorntx]

Even Sam Wilson as Captain America?

(Though in instances such as this, we do have the Muntz Principle:
"If you hadn't done it, someone else would have.")

[tinygaylaura]

Was it Remender who made Sam become Cap?

For some reason I thought that was Nick Spencer so I had that down as one of the three good ideas he'd ever had. If it was Remender I guess I have to bump Spencer down to two good ideas and yes if Remender made Sam become Cap that was a good thing he did

[blues32]

I doubt he got over it so much as he overcame it. I mean, he's still afraid to drown (mostly because his healing factor prolongs the experience). Wolverine has always been good at ignoring that fear though. After all, all those times he mutilated himself, he felt every second of it. It's agony and apparently he's left with phantom pain for a while afterward. When the time comes to do it, however, he psychs himself up and starts cutting/burning/whatever he has to do.

[tinygaylaura]

I mean Jason Aaron also tried to claim cavemen had a concept of homophobia and that Wolverine was on the right side during A vs X so I don't put a lot of stock in what he says

[blues32]

Wolverine WAS on the right side of things in A vs X. Cyclops's idea was to let the giant flaming cosmic bird of destruction and rebirth reach Earth on the off chance it decided to restart the mutant population. Wolverine thought there was a much better chance that the creature destroying planets on its way just to get to Earth would just destroy the planet and leave with its chosen host. The risk/reward ratio is a bit askew here. The risk was that everyone dies. The reward was that mutants would be able to be born without Hope needing to activate them.

Though, in the end, neither were actually correct. Hope needed proper training to use the Phoenix and none of the X-Men knew what that training was. It was the monks of K'un-Lun and Spider-Man who taught her what she really needed to know. They taught her that she had a responsibility to use that power for the greater good, regardless of cost. Without that lesson, do you think she would have decided to cast the "No More Phoenix" spell with Wanda? And if she hadn't done that, the power would have corrupted her, if the What If about A vs X is any indication.

[alliterator]

"Wolverine WAS on the right side of things in A vs X."

No, he wasn't. His idea was "Let's kill Hope" in the belief that a) Hope was the Phoenix's intended target, even without any proof, and b) the Phoenix was going to destroy the planet, even without any proof.

Fuck, back during the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Phoenix didn't try to destroy the Earth, so I don't know what the fuck Wolverine was smoking. And Rachel Summers was able to take on the Phoenix Force for YEARS without any problems whatsoever.

Of course, he tried to kill Rachel, too, so perhaps he just hates redheads that aren't Jean who try to be the Phoenix?

[scorntx]

In the run-up to A vs. X, the Phoenix was going around destroying planets, for no readily apparent reason, which was why the Avengers were so panicked about it coming to Earth.
(Can't recall if they ever actually explained what was up with that. But probably not.)

And Wolverine was in a stab-happy mood at the time.
Heck, Age of Ultron had him winding up stabbing himself.

[blues32]

Wolverine's "let's kill Hope" plan was his own. The Avengers just wanted to stop the giant fire bird from causing more destruction as several planets already met their end to the Phoenix just as it passed by. The Phoenix is a being of destruction and rebirth. So it was coming to Earth to do one of those two things. To put it in perspective, say something happened that prevented left handed people from ever being born again. Now say there was an event which could fix that or it could wipe out the entire world. Would you consider that a risk worth taking?

As to Dark Phoenix very destroying the planet...that's only because she didn't get the chance. There's a What If that shows what would happen if she remained Phoenix for longer. As expected, she feeds on a star, wiping out a solar system. When Kitty tries to talk to her, she vaporizes the girl for daring to say, "We're your friends, we can't *let* you..." Wolverine gets thrown at Colossus with his claws extended. Wolverine is so stunned by what happened that he doesn't bother escaping the enormous inferno he gets engulfed in. Xavier dies of an aneurysm trying to shut Phoenix's mind down. And once she kills Cyclops, she goes berserk, killing herself and the rest of the world...and possible the rest of the galaxy.

There's also a What If regarding A vs X where things went more the X-Men's way. It ends with everyone dead again. Everyone but Wolverine because apparently the writer was a Wolverine/Jean Grey shipper and wanted to have a way to make that work. Guess the only way it was going to happen was if literally everyone else was dead.

[alliterator]

What If?s always had bad endings or ones where everybody dies. That's just their thing. You can't cite a What If? as evidence.

[blues32]

Always have bad endings, eh? Lemme see here. Mind you, these titles may not be accurate, but the plot is what matters.

What If Spider-Man Kept His Six Arms? Saves Gwen Stacy, can hide his extra arms thanks to Reed Richards, becomes several times better a crime fighter, making the defeat of the likes of Doctor Octopus a snap.

What if The X-Men Stayed in Asgard? The X-Men split those wanting to stay staying and the ones wanting to leave leaving. Peace grows across the realms. Loki is given Asgard to rule...after being flung into the far future where entropy is minutes away from ending everything and he dies laughing at the cruel "jest".

What if Peter Parker Became the Punisher? Again, Gwen Stacy is saved. Green Goblin dies. Peter gives up the Punisher role and Frank Castle finds the discarded costume.

What if Captain America Lived During the Civil War? While groups like the KKK become more powerful under the direction of White Skull, America becomes a more racially equal country at a far faster rate. The Civil Rights Movement happens before the turn of the century.

What if Peter Parker had to Destroy Spider-Man? Flash Thompson becomes Spider-Man...or rather The Spider. While Peter tries to limit the damage he does by creating the non-lethal webshooters for Flash, in the end he creates a Spider-Slayer-like suit to defeat him. Thoroughly impressed, Reed Richards congratulates Peter and tells him he has a bright future as a scientist ahead of him.

What If Rogue Gained the Powers of Thor? Never actually happened, it was a vision Destiny had.

What if Spider-Man Kept his Cosmic Powers? While in the end Peter loses both his cosmic powers and his spider powers, he manages to convince Venom to become a proper hero...especially since Hobgoblin was given the face of Peter Parker. Peter also has a child with Mary Jane who seems to have inherited both the powers he possessed at the time.

And let's not forget that the entire MC2 was originally a What If. So yeah...doesn't always have a bad ending.

[alliterator]

Most had bad endings. You can always find exceptions.

[blues32]

It's actually closer to an equal amount than you'd think. Sometimes the endings were ambiguous as well. And it's also important to note that some What Ifs are used as lessons to the people in the mainstream universe. I think Utau showed Iron Man two worlds were the Civil War ended differently. One badly, the other was good. And all he had to do for the good one is admit to Steve he was unsure of what he was doing and ask for his help, not for him to stand down.

So using What Ifs as an argument isn't invalid if it's being used in-universe.

[alliterator]

Wasn't that also the issue with the universe where Steve Rogers and Toni Stark got married?

[blues32]

I don't think so. I think Tony was shown two realities. One where the registration was a success and one where Steve's rebellion led to the deaths of many superheroes. He saw the latter first and was almost convinced he had done the right thing until he was shown the second one. It must be really painful to see a reality where the difference stems from the tone of a conversation. I mean, his attitude in that moment got Bill Foster killed.

[tinygaylaura]

All I'm getting from this is that Tony Stark is one of the Marvel universes biggest absolute morons who should really see someone about those brain worms

I can kind of see why Marvel made Norman Osborn Tony's nemesis for a while

They have a lot in common

They're both psychotic weirdoes who blew themselves up with mad science and then flew around dressed like maniacs but at least Norman admits he's just a sick fuck who likes tossing people off bridges and doing evil shit because it makes him laugh...he doesn't try and insist that actually he's a hero and his actions are morally justified

[blues32]

No, Green Goblin throws people off bridges and does evil shit because it makes him laugh. Norman Osborn shoots down planes to see if his enemy can catch it or captures mutants to drain them and their energies to Omega Weapon (Micheal Pointer, I think his name was). Norman DOES insist he's the hero, but doesn't care if his actions are moral or not. He knows what's best.

And Tony is a hero. If he wasn't, then the Superior Iron Man wouldn't have been such a monster. He also wouldn't have been willing to give himself brain damage to prevent Norman from getting access to the SHRA files.

[blues32]

If I recall correctly, Wolverine' healing factor would indeed make it more difficult to drown, it's just that, in most cases, that just means he would suffer longer as his body goes without oxygen. Combine this with his adamantium skeleton weighing him down and water becomes a serious problem.

How he even washes up on shore in this issue is beyond me. He'd sink like a rock.