Inferno #3

[laughing_tree]

I get plenty of rope now because I’ve done the trick quite a few times, but when I was starting out at Marvel (and was very inexperienced -- and very new to ‘just writing’) I didn’t have any way to explain what I was doing story-wise, and while my act was amusing to the bosses, only my editor, Tom Brevoort, really got it and had to go to bat for me numerous times early on (probably more times than I know -- thanks, Tom!). And for a while there, I really couldn’t even explain what I was doing... Then I saw Vince Gilligan (uh, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, X-Files) give an interview where he explained this process [...] Anyway, the process was basically him talking about how, instead of introducing new concepts and characters to your stories with new backstories and unrelated, or parallel, motivations, the thing you should do is ‘mine your own continuity.’ By that, he meant that when you introduce a giant meteor to your story -- that meteor’s history doesn’t begin with it crashing into the planet. It’s not just an inciting incident, and it’s not just a rock (it’s not just a gun, it’s not just a new bad guy, it’s not just a new love interest, it’s not just a cool car, etc, etc) -- it has to have a purpose. And its history should reflect the history of the story you’re telling. This has two-fold effect: One, you get a shiny ‘new’ toy to play with (new is good, but it often doesn’t matter in dense continuity [like, say, the X-Men] unless...), Two, you get a kiss of nostalgia when that new thing connects to an ‘existing story’ in a delightful way you didn’t see coming. This creates a feedback loop that resonates through your storyline making everything matter ‘more.’ -- Jonathan Hickman

Comments

[alliterator]

What does the Scarlet Witch have to do with any of this? That was "Trial of Magneto." And we know that was a storyline that Leah Williams pitched for X-Factor that they decided to make into its own mini-series.

This is "Inferno." Something completely different and unrelated to the Scarlet Witch.

[lordultimus]

...Fuck, I had a brain fart when I read the title. I'm sorry.

(Though with that being said, I'm pretty sure Leah said that the "Trial of Magneto" title at least was forced upon her.)

[alliterator]

Yes, "Trial of Magneto" was a titled forced on the story. I think she might have wanted to pick something else like "The Death of the Scarlet Witch" or something more appropriate, but they might have balked since "Death of Doctor Strange" is already going on at the same time.

[lordultimus]

Also, Marvel has this weird obsession with naming current events after previous events.

I am 1000% sure that when Apocalypse comes back, they will do a storyline titled "Age of Apocalypse".

[deh_tommy]

Given how much I liked the last two events with the same word in the title, I can’t wait for the next Secret Invasion.

[stubbleupdate]

Hickman said on Jay and Miles that when they gave the X-Books names of old books, it let them hide what the books were actually about.

Sounds like the same plan for the Trial of Magneto.

[numeronone]

Perhaps in our lifetime we'll see another "Age of Ultron", even.

[scorntx]

Just so long as there's not another "The Crossing".

But we are running out of names to recycle...

[donnblake]

The Age of Apocalypse- when it turns out that Apocalypse was born on a leap day, he must return to his apprenticeship to a ship of pirates, unless he can convince them to settle down and marry the Major-General's daughters.

The Ages of Apocalypse- A crosstime caper featuring an Apocalypse from a future where he triumphs, Apocalypse from the empire he ruled in the past, and Cowboy Apocalypse from an alternate timeline.

The Wage of Apocalypse- Apocalypse gets a part time job at a burger joint.

The Age of Apocalypses- It turns out there were three Apocalypses all along, handily explaining any discrepancy in motivation, characterization, or power level.

[deh_tommy]

•--|Å|--•ge of •--|Å|--•poc•--|Å|--•lypse

[numeronone]

Beige of Apocalypse. The First One declares that the colour of sand is also the First Colour, and therefore the best of them. Brutal, bloody civil war ensues.

[scorntx]

Sage of Apocalypse - Apocalypse writes a cook book, it becomes a best-seller and he goes on the chat show circuit.

[onsokumaru]

"child on the sun" plus a silhouette that looks like Deathbird's...
Is that another one of Hickman's scrapped plans for Roberto?

[lordultimus]

Pretty sure, yeah, part of the dropped Imperial Guard book.

[scorntx]

Was thinking that silhouette does look kinda Roberto-y.

[numeronone]

Jonathan Hickman Challenge 2022: Write a single comic arc without an appearance by a conventionally attractive woman who is there to provide lengthy exposition and stir up drama.

(See Also: Black Swan, Moira, Omega Sentinel

[scorntx]

I was going to make a snark about suddenly reintroducing the Phoenix Blade without establishing just what it is and why it should be so scary, but with all this stuff about dropped plotlines... guess that would explain that.
(Is that why it was in the promotional artwork for X of Blades? Or was that just misdirection?)

(also one of the Infopages back in HocusPocus did mention Phoenix > Dominion, so it's not entirely out of left field, like some of Hickman's previous cosmic exploits.
But it could have used some more buildup regardless.
Maaaaybe less pages of people standing around prosing at each other. Just a thought.

And there I was thinking "while there's some things about this era I'm not wild about, the total absence of more Phoenix nonsense was nice."
Dammit...)

[tinygaylaura]

I kind of feel sorry for Devo knowing that he didn't actually choose to be the psychotic racist he is now

Omega Sentinel basically mind raped him into becoming her slave all in the name of trying to create a future where she and the other AI programs like her are going to kill his species for fun alongside mutants

That's some next level fucked up

She basically turned him into a Quisling for his entire people while making him think he's the hero.

I also like the clear analogy between Omega Sentinel and Moira here

Moira wanted mutantkind metaphorically blind by keeping them from bringing back precogs

Omega Sentinel LITERALLY blinded the human she enslaved and made it so he "Saw" what she wanted him to see

Moira and the Sentinel AI are both apt pupils. They've learned from humanity.

But they learned the wrong things

[angelophile]

Hi. Could I make the request to stop using the term 'mind raped' please? It's in the community code of conduct that rape metaphors aren't allowed in the community and it's triggering for many people to use the word rape to describe things that are not rape.

There are ways to refer to mental manipulation and violation in fiction and comics without directly comparing them to real world sexual violence.

Thank you.

[tinygaylaura]

My apologies

I used the term here to convey just how serious the way they violated this mans mind was. I did not intend to cause any offence or to trigger or upset any members of the community. I will of course not use the term again

[angelophile]

Thank you. I know it's a commonly used term and it's been a while since it came up on the comm, so I do appreciate your understanding.

[deh_tommy]

I think what Omega Sentinel showed Devo to break him to her will is meant to parallel when Moira futzed with Xavier to break him to her will. That’s become a chicken/egg conflict where the machines try to eradicate mutants because mutants try to eradicate them, and mutants try to eradicate machines because machines try to eradicate them.

That’s not a great metaphor (for one, non-mutants built the first machines, and usually by the time they achieve self-awareness or learn to be more than they are they’ve gone and wiped out 3/4s of mutants and/or humanity in general), but that’s the gist I get from this. Unless that’s meant to be a villainous echo and not necessarily a parallel, in which case I’m just talking out of my butt.

[jgraygaming]

"Heavy is the head", Charles?

Yep.

It didn't go well when you and the Illuminati decided to play kings.

It won't go well here.

Congratulations. You're going to be responsible for the fall of your dream.

Again.

[numeronone]

He's being literal. The only reason he and Magneto are constantly hanging out is that otherwise he'd have extreme neck injuries from wearing that heavy machinery on his fragile little head 24/7.

[arilou_skiff]

Wait, I am confused.

I always assumed that when Moira died she just jumped into the next timeline. The last "life" she lead is still there (well, paralell, timey wimey, etc.) she's just in a new one. Treating it as her actually *unmaking* the timeline feels... weird.

[bruinsfan]

I would assume that's what's actually happening, but from Moira's perspective she's waking up in a timeline reset to the moment of her birth. So far as I know she doesn't have any senses or inside information that would distinguish between the two.

[donnblake]

It has long been the default case that time travel in the Marvel Universe creates a branching timeline. However, they've never been wildly consistent on the matter, especially when it's more dramatic to imagine the current timeline being wiped out or changed.

[deepspaceartist]

I mean, it could be that her mutant power does actually allow her to unmake the timeline in a way other time travel methods don't. It's not unreasonable to assume that there's more than one way to break space and time.

[arilou_skiff]

Its morethat I am not sure why Charles or Emma would believe it works that way.

[numeronone]

I take issue with that opening quotation only in that a giant meteor is, by definition, something that does not have a backstory nor a purpose. It's a rock hurtling through the aether, not a giant missile. Nobody fired it.

[deh_tommy]

"Those other species, they invade for profit, power, revenge. The meteor is pure chaos. The destruction of the Earth for no reason at all, just blind chance."

[numeronone]

"If I don't survive, tell my wife 'Hello'."

Mind you, I haven’t read the whole issue, so I could be completely off the mark. But...

[deh_tommy]

I think the whole “oppressors becomes the oppressed” angle here, while something I’ve been waiting for for what feels like forever with how Krakoa’s been written, is a bit weird when that’s coming from machines specifically built on eradicating fellow humans. The “we always lose” thing was already really forced when that was about mutants, but while violence and prejudice is a cycle that can and should be broken, that’s not like a lot of the minorities the X-Men stand in for were created or bred to be killers and war machines. Unless the machines of this future are innocent and mutants are also ruthlessly hunting down non-mutants and machines for the crime of existing before they even have the chance to transgress (and/or are assimilating people into the mutant hivemind/culture like the machines were in Hox/PoX), this comes off a bit to me like “the mutants won’t let us slaughter them all 🥺”.

Re: Mind you, I haven’t read the whole issue, so I could be completely off the mark. But...

[tinygaylaura]

The machines of this future aren't oppressed any more than a serial killer is being "oppressed" when they're put in jail so they can't serial murder any more.

[leahandillyana]

That's a very awkwardly worded basic rule of serialized storytelling. Just ask any Gundam fan.

[remial]

so, dumb question, what were the flowers that Cypher gave Beast that required the use of a lot of super gross cadavers?

[tinygaylaura]

I'm guessing its how he made the "Krakoan Tumors" that create sections of Krakoa that cannot be spied on