Batman Beyond #28

[brerrabbit]

Comments

[beyondthefringe]

Bruce and Barbara is a thing which never should have happened, for so many reasons, not just because of Dick's own role in the relationship. The sheer nature of the power imbalance between them, with Bruce as mentor/teacher/employer/boss/person with influence... even if Barbara is a grown woman in there of her own volition, it doesn't feel like a partnership or relationship between equals.

And yeah, I'd also say the same thing about Bruce and any of his sidekicks/mentees... Dick, Tim, Jason, Cassandra, Stephanie... The only members of the Bat-clan who I believe to come to Bruce as partners not unduly influenced by him would of course be Selena, Harley, Ghost-Maker, Helena (depending on which version we're using -this- week).

[owlbrigade1]

Agreed. The DCAU didn't make many missteps, but, boy-howdy, when they put their foot in it they did it big style. Bruce/Barbara was a huge misstep, it was a huge mistake. It isn't like there weren't other ways for Bruce to fall out with Barbara and Dick either, it would have been believable enough for him to have become distanced without that. I kinda hate that they keep on doubling down on it too.

[deh_tommy]

I loved Batman Beyond (or Batman of the Future or whatever it’s called), but some things were a bit hard to swallow (like Superman losing untold years of his life to Starro, or the uncertain fates of Bruce’s love interests, or how Batman ultimately didn’t really solve anything).

But sheesh, these comics were awful. Isn’t this the same book that had Wonder Woman basically sell herself to a political marriage with the Justice Lords or something?

[tinygaylaura]

"some things were a bit hard to swallow"

That's also why Babs stopped dating Bruce

"I had to unhinge my goddamn jaw"

"But sheesh, these comics were awful. Isn’t this the same book that had Wonder Woman basically sell herself to a political marriage with the Justice Lords or something?"

You mean the writer that treated an adult woman like a rare Pokemon card two men were fighting over ownership over also wrote a story where Wonder Woman sold herself into indentured servitude

It is almost as if this writer has some kind of issues with women

[armycat23]

I always thought the idea of them being intimate was ham-fisted. It felt like it happened for no other reason other than to start drama. There was no hints, build-up, etc.....it was like "Bam!" right out of the blue.

At least with Catwoman it was foreshadowed and over a period of time of flirty behavior.

What if one day the writers wanted to start more drama by Bruce being intimate with Cassandra Cain or Stephanie? Yeeesh......

[tinygaylaura]

"I always thought the idea of them being intimate was ham-fisted"

No no, what Professor Pyg does that's ham-fisted

"What if one day the writers wanted to start more drama by Bruce being intimate with Cassandra Cain or Stephanie? Yeeesh......"

That would be nonsense because Cass and Steph are clearly fucking each other

[john_drake1964]

Oof...yeah, despite the DCAU having a lot of strong elements, this was part of it that really, in retrospect, wasn't a great idea, and I'm not sure why it continues to be a thing (i.e. The Killing Joke adaptation of a few years back...) that crops up or is referenced.

It's always crossed a line as stated between mentor/boss/additional parental figure to something more that really is a problematic dynamic.

Generally, the healthier relationships tend to be ones where the partner can stand as peer to peer in the relationship. And it's not like there weren't instances in the DCAU of potential romantic partners being there that fit that particular criteria.

[tinygaylaura]

"I'm seven weeks pregnant"

That sure is a thing people say

"Guess my son is about to be a father"

"Its yours

"Guess I'm going to get the chance to call my son a Beta Cuck"

"Please stop using words you learned on the internet Bruce"

"It's pretty Cringe of you to tell me me that Babs"

"Stop at once"

"Guess I pwned him with my Dick Game"

"no"

Bruce lovingly tells Barbara that she should do what feels right and he'll support her

But he also decides to call Dick up for the sole purpose of letting him know he's been balls deep in his girlfriend and that the baby is probably his

The pointless idiocy of two grown men in halloween costumes fistfighting over who should get to drag a woman back to their cave so them can be wife now is intercut with panels of the cartoon woman having a miscarriage because this is a classy book

Bruce taking the mask off when he tells Dick he's been fucking his girlfriend is hilarious

"This is a very important matter so let's show it the maturity it deserves

I'm just a grown man dressed in grey spandex gtalking to his adult son in black spandex about a very mature situation"

[lbd_nytetrayn]

I just love how "back to their cave" seems like it's in regards to the caveman metaphor for fighting over a woman, yet is applicable to these two in as literal a way as it could possibly be.

[tinygaylaura]

Oh god it actually is

[tinygaylaura]

I don't want to be the kind of fan who says that any time a writer has a take on characters that I don't like they're a bad writer or can't write the characters properly

That said

If a writers take on Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayon reminds me of Cal and Nate Jacobs

That was a bad take on the characters and they can't write the characters properly

[numeronone]

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<a href="https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/the-boner”>Shortpacked! Addressed It:</a>

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[plastefuchs]

I think your markup is pretty broken currently ^^

[numeronone]

Yeah, thanks. You nay be unaware that replying to the comment locks me out of editing it.

[plastefuchs]

This is a fascinating thing to learn. I don't think I know any other platform that does such a thing. :o

[cygnia]

So...why did the comics double down on Bruce Timm's fetish fanfic?

[b_i_beast]

My guess is that this was the best way the author could fill in gaps of the fallout Bruce and his former sidekicks. (It's not IMHO.)

[b_i_beast]

Was BrucexBarbara necessary? Was an affair between the two necessary? Was a miscarriage necessary? Was any of this necessary?

[armycat23]

No, it wasnt.

It was just a cheap and quick grab at trying to be shocking.

[tinygaylaura]

There are so many fetish fanfics I love why did the one I I find boring and shitty have to be the one that got made canon?

[numeronone]

Shortpacked Did It:

[crinos]

I'm pretty sure the only person who has ever wanted that ship is Bruce Timm, which is why he also shoehorned it into the Killing Joke Movie.

Which....Bruce, I say this as a huge fan of your work but no. Just not. Here is the approved list of people to ship Babs with:

1) Dick
2) Dinah
3) Supergirl if its a Supergirl where they are about the same age (Like in the DCAU)
4) Dick/Starfire Polycule
5) Literally almost anyone who ISN'T BRUCE.

No one else wants this. Stop trying to make it a thing.

[viridian5]

that ship is Bruce Timm, which is why he also shoehorned it into the Killing Joke Movie.

"Some people find this story problematic. Obviously, the best thing to do is make it even worse in a different way."

[tinygaylaura]

I don't really believe in terms like "Problematic" when it comes to consensual relationships between adults

I don't much care for Bruce/Babs but this story has got far bigger problems than that

This would be a bad story whoever the other guy was

If Bruce and Babs are going to be paired off together just have them be together

Don't have her be cheating on Dick with his father behind his back and then she loses the baby while they have a fistfight over it

Not even Riverdale would do this as a plot

[viridian5]

Problematic for how it can be said that "Killing Joke" uses Barbara's getting shot, tormented, and paralyzed by the Joker purely to motivate the male characters. Some say it has a bit of a torture porn vibe too.

So let's take a story where some people are already unhappy about how Barbara is treated as a thing and add a plot where she's kind of just a thing in another way, where she's a wishbone being tugged between two men for drama, a mentee in a sexual relationship with a much older man/mentor who has authority over her, who is a father figure to the other man she's involved with.

[tinygaylaura]

"Problematic for how it can be said that "Killing Joke" uses Barbara's getting shot, tormented, and paralyzed by the Joker purely to motivate the male characters. Some say it has a bit of a torture porn vibe too. "

I understand now

I agree the story of the Killing Joke can indeed be called problematic

I would call it "Garbage" but problematic is a more polite way to refer to it

"So let's take a story where some people are already unhappy about how Barbara is treated as a thing and add a plot where she's kind of just a thing in another way, where she's a wishbone being tugged between two men for drama"

She's also portrayed as an idiot barely above Vicki "I'm on a date with Bruce Wayne" Vale from ASBAR in terms of what an empty headed moron she acts like

"Oh wow a psychotic mob boss has an unhealthy fixation on me? That's so hot! It's almost as hot as having sex with the asshole who treats me like shit on a rooftop to avoid dealing with any of our issues!"

"a mentee in a sexual relationship with a much older man/mentor who has authority over her, who is a father figure to the other man she's involved with.""

The age gap doesn't bother me

I'd be a hypocrite to complain about age gaps in het ships

Given how much I love Cougar/Kitten in F/F ones

[viridian5]

“Batman is prepared for anything!”
Batman: has unprotected sex, unintentionally gets a girl pregnant

[tinygaylaura]

"That's the big twist?

That Bruce has a kid?

He's dropping all these raw-dog loads all over Gotham of course he has a kid"

"I...I don't know what "Raw-dog loads" are..."

"My disgusting friend makes a good point...."

[viridian5]

Damien is even less special than he thinks he is.

[tinygaylaura]

I love the sound of options 2-4 :)

I don't feel like I can judge Bruce Timm for constantly trying to make his OTP canon

If I ever get hired for DC or Marvel I'd do the same

[crinos]

Well I'm absolute shipping trash as well, but there are just some ships that just make me throw up my hands ans go "Nope, NOPE. ALL OF THE NOPE."

Orihime/Ulqiorra, Violet/Syndrome, Ben/Gwen, and Bruce/Babs.

Like I'm sorry but just....no.

[tinygaylaura]

I don't know the characters you refer to in the first or third examples you mention but I share your hatred for the idea of Violet/Syndrome because Violet is in high school and Syndrome is a grown man that's not a relationship that's abuse

[lissa_quon]

Well Bruce Timm's ship is even WORSE actually than "oh this is my crack ship!" - supposedly the whole thing started cause he liked the dynamic of Batgirl and Batman in the Adam West series (or he just liked Batgirl in the series I don't recall).

So - THAT was always percolating back in his head as he worked on the BTAS. Where he went with - and added all the AWKWARD. And THEN wrote them as a couple with all this AWKWARD BAGGAGE.

[blueprintstyles]

I hated these comics, felt disrespectful to BATS and Batman Beyond.

[tinygaylaura]

They really just doubled down on making Bruce a hateful bastard here and I hate it

I'm not the biggest fan of how Batman Beyond had Bruce as a miserable lonely old man without any friends or family left who'd lost his company, given up the Bat and let his city go to hell but at least the backstory it gave for why was respectful to the character and it had a theme of hopee returning to Gotham and a new Batman both stopping monsters like Derek Powers who had turned the city into such an awful place and Bruce finding hope again and not being all on his own anymore

[scorntx]

Sometimes, with all the things DC has done with Batman Beyond since the original show ended, it feels like the kindest thing really would've been to just leave it alone, and let it fade into memory.

(Lookin' at you, especially, "Hush Beyond".)

[tinygaylaura]

It's like those wise words say

For everything

Turn turn turn

There is a season

Turn turn turn

[tinygaylaura]

Bruce: Living a double life?

Not my biggest regret

*Points at Dick*

You are

I mean we all have secrets

Jason

The porn on your fucking computer

Made my jaw drop

Jason: What the fuck I'm not even in this story why am I getting called out like this

[coldfury]

Jason: I'm not even in this CONTINUITY, what the hell man?

[b_i_beast]

He showed up in the continuation comic "Batman: The Adventures Continue", so he is now!

[viridian5]

They put him in just so they could shame him over his porn.

[tinygaylaura]

"Don't drag me into this"

[superfangirl1]

Bruce totally knew the baby was his and was playing dumb about it.

[tinygaylaura]

"Previously in As The Bat Turns...."

Babs: Bruce, I'm pregnant!

And your the father!

Duke: Steph!

So your the one who shot Alfred!

Steph: YES IT WAS I

Babs: Jason I'm pregnant!

And your the father!

Bruce: My family I must leave...for you see I have...amnesia!

Dick: Father, I cannot help you

For I too have...AMNESIA!

Babs: Tim I'm pregnant!

And your the....

Tim: NO FUCKING WAY

Babs: Okay I made up that one

Steph: Cass I'm pregnant!

AND YOUR THE FATHER!

"And now, the conclusion..."

[superfangirl1]

You win the internet for that. Lol

[tinygaylaura]

I will try to use it for good!

[shadowpsykie]

if Dick and Babs were never together here, or if Dick was younger than Babs, or if Barbara spent more time away from Bruce as her own crime fighter and not as a mentee, then i would have been okay with this... Bruce had his own viable love interests, Barbara, HERE shouldn not have been one.