NS - She-Hulk is finished.

[stubbleupdate]

What did we make of it?

I enjoyed it on the whole and 100% could not have guessed the ending.

Jameela Jamil was a bit rubbish, but so was her character.

Tatiana Maslany was, no surprise, really good, but only got a few moments to properly shine

Chat full of spoilers in the comments.

Comments

[stubbleupdate]

This bit was pretty great.

Ally McBeal in the MCU... loved it.

[synnerman]

I'm glad they stuck to the half comedy experiment. I had a lot of fun. It was kind of odd watching real-time fanboy outrage match the show's progression, but, well, the Internet is predictable like that though.

I'm hoping to get a season to just to get the inevitable "Revenge of K.E.V.I.N. plot."

The Black Panther leitmotif was perfectly timed.

[onsokumaru]

I liked the first episode.
The last one was great. (except admitting some things suck doesn't make it ok)
Everything in-between made me regret my subscription to Disney+.

No plot besides "men are awful amarite"
Not proper triails: everything was linear, resolved in a couple minutes.
Barely any super hero stuff besides the team-up with Daredevil. That "fight" with Titania was like a terrible caricature of a "girl fight".
The humour... Ok, it's subjective, but was Wong and the Party Idiot listing cocktails really supposed to be fun or cute?
The other Marvel Universe characters? I hate the "nobody care about those D-listers, so let's crap on them" mentality in comics, I also hate it in the MCU.

"She Hulk: barely attorney at law" officialy beats "Spider-Man: Spider-verse done wrong" and Iron Man 2 as my less favorite MCU production.

[deh_tommy]

What did No Way Home do wrong?

[onsokumaru]

Quick resolving of the new, interesting statut quo from the last movie. Paper thin plot, just an excuse to play nostalgia with movies that are barely 20 years old. Which also means three similar versions of Peter Parker instead of interesting variations of the Spiders, and only old villains which story was already told and done.

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, as a lifelong Spider-Man fan, I enjoyed the movie just for the character stuff.

But the movie itself is nonsense.

It doesn't even follow it's own logic.

"Oh, we pulled all these people who know that Peter is Spider-Man moments before their deaths"

Except Electro didn't know the secret.

And Sandman didn't die.

And (the new) Venom doesn't meet either criteria.

[deh_tommy]

Yeah, I don’t really get why Sandman had to be cured, but I imagine it’d be an inconvenience to never be able to go out into the rain or water or getting blown away by a heavy enough breeze. But Sandman’s stuck until everyone else gets cured. He even says as much. Considering 3/5 people definitely die once you push that button, would you let it happen? Especially when you have the power to make a difference? You can probably say Electro learned about Peter when he did whatever he did at the end of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 or he comes from a universe where he learned Peter’s identity along the course of the movie. Venom was probably a SONY thing, they had some half-baked excuse in Let There Be Carnage about Venom being able to access memories from a symbiote network or something and because of that he clearly recognises Peter.

I think it was a coincidence most of them were pulled from right before they died, because the only thing meant to bind them all together was knowing Peter Parker was Spider-Man. It’s why Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield get sucked into the story as well, because who knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man better than Spider-Man?

[deh_tommy]

To each their own. Personally, I thought it was spectacular. If I had to pick a least favourite MCU production, it’d have to be Multiverse of Madness, no contest.

I’m a bit confused by “play nostalgia with movies that are barely 20 years old”, though. 20 years is a pretty long time, certainly long enough to get nostalgic over (especially if you were a child at the time). Heck, 10 years is a long enough time to get nostalgic.

[onsokumaru]

Yeah, I'm just that old that everything post 2000 is recent stuff to me.
But I'm getting worried about the MCU public becoming more interested at stuff they already now, like Daredeflix or Hughverine, than new stuff.

[armycat23]

Did all the characters à diservice. Glad its finished. Now to wait for the usual "blame men" online statements from crew and cast.

[iamrman]

I started to re-read Slott's She-Hulk run and it only reminded me why I hate the MCU version of Titania. A legitimate threat in the comics and the MCU turned her in to a vacuous idiot. Not that I will be able to say anything like that. Criticising the show automatically makes me akin to the whiny man babies in the Intelligencia, amirite?

[blueprintstyles]

Thought it was okay, didn't love it but there's some potential. Leaned a little too hard on tropes and stereotypes I think.

[windleopard2]

More or less my feelings on it.

[zachbeacon]

Well, at least two thirds of the episodes are pretty good.

I imagine the fourth wall break is going to be divisive. I don’t really mind it. Admittedly this brand of fourth wall breaking is less the winking at the camera I expect from Jen and more the wandering off to attack the writers that I expect from Deadpool. Still, fine with a change and the use of the D+ home screen felt a lot like a Jamie McKelvie Young Avengers sequence.


I may have more after I sit with it for a while but my main takeaway is that this finale really wants credit for things it doesn’t actually do.

“No, we don’t need Bruce to show up and drop some exposition on what he’s been up to”

*Later Bruce shows up an introduces his son to the family*


“Look, I just want Emil to take some responsibility for his actions”

*Wong breaks him out in the post-credits scene*

This one especially annoys me because it reset his status quo and “shady self-help guru” is a lot more interesting than what was going on with him before this series.

(As an aside, I’m not entirely convinced that Abomination knew who the group he was hosting were. Other than using his powers while being legally prohibited from doing so - a thing Jen was also doing – I’m not sure I’d say he did anything wrong.)

[mindsweeper]

I enjoyed it mostly as comfort viewing. It didn’t really wow me, but it was fun enough for a Thursday night. It wasn’t great as a legal comedy, being less funny, lawyerly, or innovative than say, Ally McBeal or Night Court. I liked what we saw from the supporting characters at the law office.

My biggest complaint is that it felt very safe. It didn’t go far enough with the comedy or commentary. It certainly didn’t break any new ground. I’ve seen all the archetypes and stereotypes they showed about dating, men, fashion designers, self-help groups, influencers, online toxicity, d-list heroes, or pretty much everything else. Even breakout character Madisynn was cute but not original.

The Emil thing … I get that he’s going back to jail for breaking parole (turning into Abomination), not because of the plot against Jen, but he did try to save her, so I wish he got some credit for that.

And I really thought Titania would be more than they made her. I was wrong on that, for sure.

[poshmerchant]

Great show! Only problem is that a light legal comedy with 20 minute episodes should have a 24 episode tv season paced for syndication, not a 9 episode big budget miniseries

The finale felt very Gwenpool

I should pick up some She-Hulk trades

In a word, disappointed

[michaelmrt]

Although the series had its moments (Wongers, Emil, and Daredevil), I'm very much disappointed in it. Very little I thought was actually funny, not a good sign for a comedy series. Jen Walters was revealed to be about the worst lawyer on the planet (zero prep for a product liability case?), not a good sign for a courtroom/legal show (it's in the title).

Lazy character, dialogue, and plot writing. Paper thin characters that were generally caricatures of people instead of actual people. For a show that constantly tried to remind you who the show was about, it had way too many appearances by other MCU characters - Bruce, Wongers, Daredevil - all of whom made multiple appearances from start to end of the series. And when those appearances are the best part of the show? Not good.

From a structural and conceptual standpoint, the show was a complete mess. It wanted to be about how women are treated by society (by men, specifically) but then wouldn't commit to that and undermined it with hysterically over-the-top dudebros, unremitting "comedy" and the parade of guest stars and cameos. Aka Jessica Jones did a WAY better job examining a serious subject (trauma and PTSD) then this show did. Put on a quality scale, She-Hulk would be on one end with Wanda-Vision (or Moon Knight) on the other end.

Compare this show with Andor (excellent writing - great characters, plotting, dialogue, etc.) and it comes off very poorly.

This hurts to write because Tatiana Maslany is an incredible actress as Orphan Black showed. She tried, her damnedest, to make this work but the writers were utterly incapable of rising to the level of its cast.

[capnduckman]

OH MY GOD IT WAS SO GOOD!

I was worried at the end, but then she did the SHe Hulk thin, and it was ABSOLUTELY amazing. I didn't like Keven being a robot, it should have been the real guy, but god damn did it impress. Good writing, good storyline, fun characters, this will be the only marvel TV show I rewatch!

[crabby_lioness]

I -- see why they needed Tatiana Maslany to pull it off.

[justsotired]

...I liked it!

The series had up-and-down episodes and no real clear through-plot until the end BUT, the ending was also the most like an issue of a Byrne She-Hulk comic, which is why I think it left a lot of people confused.

I think the low-key hit for me was Josh Segarra as Pug. It was a great role for a good actor who's gift/curse of a mean-mug meant he usually ended up playing snarly thugs or gangsters. Playing a guy whose core defining character trait was 'he's a nice person' must've been a refreshing change.

[mindsweeper]

Maybe the early fourth wall stuff was too small so people weren’t ready for full Byrne-style shenanigans. It definitely took me back when She-Hulk broke through the D+ menu like she used to do with the pages and her talking directly to KEVIN.

Agreed on Pug. I’m glad they skipped the cliche of the ‘good guys’ secretly being bad guys.

[lordultimus]

Honestly, I'm wondering if we're approaching an era where being meta has itself become seen as overdone and unoriginal.

[mastermahan]

Hard to say. Comics have had a lot of meta for a long time. Comic readers like us are probably more exposed to it than the general populace.

[scorntx]

The knee-jerk reaction at time of watching:
Errrmh.
The smashing the fourth wall into powdery paste seemed gratuitous (even though we're talking about a show that's been breaking the wall since it started.)

After some hours to think about it, however... I don't know.
Progress?

Most of the gripes I'd have about the show would be comparatively minor things, like Jen's mom being such a goofball.
(Seriously. What was up with that?)

... I still really hate Damage Control.
As characters and as a narrative device.

[llordllama]

I pretty much loved it, and was delighted by a show willing to experiment with the format. Final episode had me in stiches especially, but it's been a fun ride and the one show of the week I watch on the day it comes out. Andor, TROP, Rick and Morty etc, when I get round to it. (Okay, aside from Ghosts-UK.). Was it the greatest MCU show ever? Maybe not, but did I enjoy myself far more than I expected to? Yes, yes I did. And even Mrs Llama enjoyed it and she's become very cynical about MCU formulas.

[mastermahan]

Wait, the new seasons of Ghosts started? Nice!

[llordllama]

Aye, they dropped the other week and are already all on iPlayer...having to ration them out - but it's been its usual high quality so far (I'm on ep4)! :)

[mazway_75]

I liked it a lot. Sure, weaknesses at times (Titania) but Maslany was fantastic and the fourth-wall breaks done well, especially the wild finale. Surprised at some venom thrown at it and not from the usual suspects but the Daredevil appearance was a delight.

I just liked finally a MCU show that felt like a TV show, not a big "save the world" plot, just a fun romp and in that way it succeeded.

[akodo_rokku]

My favorite MCU show so far. Deeply fun and full of charming characters. I look forward to the spinoff starring Wong, Emil, and Madisyn.

[steverodgers5]

I really enjoyed it. I have to give them credit for taking a swing at capturing the spirit of the old Sensational She Hulk comic of John Byrne's and really going for it in the finale. The breaking of the Disney+ tiles was the closest tv equivalent you could have, to the moment where the She Hulk lost her patience and started running, jumping and tearing through all the back issue listings in the advertisment pages of a comic.

I expect they'll probably tone it down a bit in what will hopefully be some more tv seasons, and perhaps do shows based more on the later Peter David/Dan Slott runs. Where it was more about maintaining the lawyer-superhero balance with lots of hijinks ensuing from trying to keep doing both of those. (If they get Spider-Man on the stand defending himself against J J Jonah Jameson's vendetta by pretending for a moment that he's black, and that Jameson's crusade is a rascist attack, then I will love them forever for being that daring!)

Also gotta say that I adored the homage to the old Bill Bixby Lou Ferrigno TV show in the opening credits. Hearing the old tv show music again was a undeniable thrill. And the perfectly imitated tv narrator's attempt to reinsert it again later was hilarious!

[shakalooloo]

Good, simple fun.

The one downside is wondering what sort of knock-on effect this will have on the forthcoming Daredevil series. He's a gritty, street-level hero that now has a hulk on speed-dial...

[scorntx]

Well, Matt's usual excuse of "I can't put my loved ones in danger" won't exactly fly...
Maybe Jen just can't afford the travel from LA to NY.
Or she's busy working on a case just when Matt calls her.