Amazing Spider-Man #15

[cyberghostface]

 



It's Venom who, after a deal with Ben and Madelyne, has been regressed into his more primal self.

Comments

[blues32]

...where did Eddie come from? He shouldn't have a body outside the symboite. Aw, crap, this is how he kills his son, isn't it? His brain is messed up and Madelyne is a total bitch in that fashion. She'd love to do that. Especially if she's already agreed to do so by his future self.

Peter, you aren't helping. You could have handled this reunion better. You could have offered help, not say, "You know I can't let you do this". That's NEVER a good thing to say. No one in the history of comics has ever responded well to it. They don't sigh, slump their shoulders, and agree.

What is Pryor's obsession with mailboxes?!

[cainofdreaming]

Scott announced leaving her for Jean through mail?

[numeronone]

The tone of this event thus far has reminded me a lot of Stephen King's movie Maximum Overdrive, and the discussion on the podcast "How Did This Get Made?" about said film - namely, "What counts as a machine?"

Obviously the rule is whatever the writers find funny/interesting enough to turn toothy and ornery is going to turn - but as in MO, what's the internal logic? Why is it mailboxes and prams but not fire hydrants and taxis? Why doesn't Spidey's glider start taking chomps out of his back? Why isn't Cyclops' visor growing a nasty little grin? Why did this...wave of easily-solved mild inconvenience get heralded by a melodramatic organ solo? What are the rules?

[blues32]

In fairness, she's just getting started. When "Inferno" started, it was just an object here and there. Next thing you know, Spider-Man is being attacked by a brick wall.

[windleopard2]

I don't think it would have mattered what Peter said.

[iamrman]

Venom is looking awfully thin on that cover. Probably not eating enough brains.

[numeronone]

He's got a hollow leg. And other leg. And arms. And tummy. And everything.

[numeronone]

At this point I'm perfectly willing to believe the real Ben Reilly died back in the 90s, and the...*waves hands*...of this one is all due to him being a clone of a clone.

[dragontail]

If it helps (and for me personally, it does), that's more or less the canonical explanation via "The Clone Conspiracy". The original Ben/"our" Ben did indeed die, and the Jackal kept cloning, killing and re-cloning him to perfect the process (gawd, I hate torture science concepts like that). This Ben is the version that managed to escape, reverse the balance of power, become the Jackal himself, cause problems, turn anti-heroic, then heroic, then get duped by Nextwave leftovers, they this...

...

... I miss Kaine Parker and his red-suited, foul-mouthed, "legitimate" anti-hero (if such a thing can be said) adventures.

[numeronone]

And Hummingbird. They made a great duo.

[super_fly]

Yeah, speaking of where's she and the rest of his Texas friend group to whack him on the head and tell him to stop being a dumbass?

[blues32]

I think Hummingbird may be dead. She was always going on about her impending demise at the hands of the fire god inside her. I don't even know where Kaine himself is right now. He may not be on Earth 616 right now.

[janegray]

Except they specifically state that it's the same soul. It's our Ben.

Our Ben being done incredibly dirty.

[blues32]

Me too. He was such a radical departure of what Ben made the Scarlet Spider into. To the point that the first thing he did when he encountered Carnage was twist his head 180 degrees while asking if he looked like Spider-Man to him. Which, honestly, would have worked if it was the 90s. Symboites got a real power boost in terms of what they could do for their hosts later on. It would have been almost hilarious if Kaine killed Carnage then and there, ending Minimum Carnage before it started.

[windleopard2]

To the point that the first thing he did when he encountered Carnage was twist his head 180 degrees while asking if he looked like Spider-Man to him. Which, honestly, would have worked if it was the 90s.

Didn't Carnage have a ridiculous healing factor even back in the 90s?

[blues32]

The symboite itself did, yes, but not Kassidy. The symboite could rapidly regenerate from Kassidy's blood. In fact, I think the deal was that the symboite basically WAS his blood, having bonded to it.

[windleopard2]

I'm remembering how the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (not the comics, admittedly) had Carnage regenerating from decapitation or gun shots to the abdomen.

[blues32]

Oh, that was past the 90s by a long shot. By that point the symboite in the comics had been doing crazy stuff like keeping Kassidy alive after being torn in half, covering him and creating air sacks that changed carbon dioxide into oxygen.

[mastermahan]

The idea of Chasm has some huge potential. Spider-Man's origin is that a moment of selfishness cost him someone he loved. There was at least one time in the Lee/Ditko comics where he thought about stealing to make ends meet but didn't because it would literally kill Aunt May.

So a version of Peter Parker who doesn't remember his aunt and uncle could very well be a selfish bastard and might make an interesting contrast.

Unfortunately, invading New York with an army of demons is too over-the-top Evil to take seriously. There's no complexity or emphasizing with Ben's motives. It's a simple, black-and-white story of Stop The Baddies. There's nothing wrong with those, but it wastes the potential Chasm had.

At least his costume is cool.

(I know we already have Kaine, but you could make a selfish bastard Peter Parker that's sufficiently different from the other selfish bastard Peter Parker)

[numeronone]

But then how would we justify all the supporting characters treating regular Peter Parker as a bastard who is selfish?

[mastermahan]

Oh god, is Mary Jane mad at him because Ben disguised himself as Pete and ate a kitten or something?

...yeah, it's probably something stupid like that.

[scorntx]

It is a cool costume, at least.

(I was gonna say it could maybe do without the glowing bits. But without them, he looks like Young Justice's Black Spider, and that would just be weirdly recursive...)

[mastermahan]

Just tamp down on that glow. It gives Ben an eeriness, but it doesn't need to pour off him like he's tapping into the Spider Force.

[blues32]

I think it's more like the power of...retcon fluids or something. That's what he fell into, isn't it? The chemical was designed to not only get rid of the evidence of the Beyond Corporation, but to make it like it never existed at all. If that's the case, he's really under utilizing what amounts to reality manipulation.

[cainofdreaming]

But then how would they sell the glow in the dark action figures?

[scorntx]

D'oh. I forgot about the glow in the dark action figures.

[beyondthefringe]

Early Peter Parker had a pretty big chip on his shoulder (or so I seem to recall), and it was only the guidance of May and Ben who kept him decent. And even then, his single biggest regret of all time was the moment of selfishness and pettiness which led to Ben's death, the moment which has defined him ever since.

Peter without that moral guidance and with the sudden onset of super-powers could easily have become a bully or villain, striking back at the world that had so often mistreated him. We've even seen that in some What Ifs... but imagine if it happened now: a socially awkward teenage white genius with a history of being persecuted and bullied, who feels alienated and alone, and then he gets a whole set of creepy super-powers?

Even worse, imagine if after getting those powers and using them to become a celebrity, he was subjected to the same sort of JJJ/media harassment which even pushed mainstream Peter to the breaking point.

Peter Parker, at heart, may be one of Marvel's truest heroes: someone who has always done the right thing no matter how hard it is or what it costs him.

And this is my long-winded way of saying that "Chasm" should have been more like Peter without the crucial memories and moral foundation--entitled, selfish, bitter, vindictive, ready to push back hard against anyone he thought wrong him, and with the powers to indulge those impulses.

I'd like to think he'd have found a better way to get revenge than armies of demons though.

[blues32]

That's always been my opinion of Spider-Man. He's up there with Captain America in regards of being the purest of the pure heroes. The fact he doesn't have people trying to help him right now instead of being all pissy about something we aren't allowed to be privy to at this point really gets to me. He made a mistake, but he's always meant well. Like none of them have ever screwed up badly. Now it seems the only person in his corner is Norman Osborn of all people.

[windleopard2]

Well, there's also Black Cat.

[blues32]

Black Cat seems to be providing emotional support and little else at this point. At this point, I think the Avengers and Fantastic Four have his cell number blocked.

[windleopard2]

Emotional support is certainly more than what he's getting from almost anyone else. Hell, it's more than what he tends to get from most of his supporting cast since BND.

[beyondthefringe]

I like how Maddie waited exactly five minutes after gaining control of Limbo to re-enact Inferno. Not even TRYING to pretend to have changed. Nope. It's "hey thanks..." and then "mailboxes are eating people and the Rockefeller Christmas tree is possessed by demon poop."