Date: 2010-09-15 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie
Goddamnit the joker behind yet another rift in the Batclan and causing one member nearly irreparable damage...there's no really reason why Bruce (or someone) shouldn't have just killed him.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:02 pm (UTC)
xammax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] xammax
I don't buy this... not for a second. I offically divorce Batman Beyond form the DCUA and DC canon. They keep making a Bruce a bigger dick then he is. First having sex with Barbra and then this.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:45 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
I know, it's so bleak and horrible. :(
Batman loved all his Robins; in my mind that's just not up for debate.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:50 am (UTC)
xammax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] xammax
I may not have loved Hush but there was one line that was so spot on it needs repeating:

Even in the end... Jason knew how much I loved him.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:54 pm (UTC)
ar_feiniel: (tdk)
From: [personal profile] ar_feiniel
Batman loved all his Robins; in my mind that's just not up for debate.

Yes. This.

Date: 2010-09-16 02:03 am (UTC)
schala_kid: Stephanie Brown as Batgirl (Default)
From: [personal profile] schala_kid
I'm going to have to agree they just made him into this horrible unlikable douchebag to pretty much everyone who ever loved him.

Date: 2010-09-16 04:41 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arysteia
Amen times 50,000.

Date: 2010-09-16 10:35 am (UTC)
stig: "It Was A Boojum..." (Default)
From: [personal profile] stig
Yep. This is kind of why having Damien be the one who trains Terry made much more sense, as at least Damien's natural character is a hard-to-like sourpuss.

If any version of future-Bruce holds water for me, it's the Kingdom Come version as he's not as psychotic as the Beyond version (there I said it). In KC, he's completely rid of the Joker, the mansion, the pretence, etc., and has a chance to sit back and grin. And looks magnificent doing so.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:50 pm (UTC)
minyandu: "I made this!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] minyandu
And Damian is more like the kind who would have the scenario of cadmus-make-you-a-child. He seems totally no caring about love life or so in the future run.

I like Kingdom Come Bruce playing Sherlock Holmes in the end noticing Diana's pregnancy. And Nightstar should be good for Ibn too. That ending really makes me happy. :P

Date: 2010-10-01 07:30 am (UTC)
strannik01: (Default)
From: [personal profile] strannik01
First having sex with Barbra

Why is that a dick thing? They were both consenting adults.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:04 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Bruce not coming to see Dick doesn't work for me. Actually this whole scenario doesn't work for me, but that's beside the point.

What happened to Tim is a whole different situation, but even if he didn't do it out of a sense of personal responsibility (Which Batman is a walking testament to), Alfred would bloody well MAKE him visit.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:14 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
I've been enjoying this mini overall, but I can't help but agree. The whole Bruce not seeing Dick thing kinda throws me off. Plus yet again, you have more tragedy reigning upon the Batclan. At this point..kinda not looking forward to seeing how Damian, Cass, and Steph turned out.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:24 pm (UTC)
jarodrussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jarodrussell
Damien, if Batman #666 is any indication, turned out pretty good. He's a bastard, but a fun one.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Different continuity, as I understand it. I would be surprised if this universe had a Damian.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:00 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Not sure, after all, we sort of know Damian saved Terry from Two-Face Two when Terry was a baby, Whether that Terry is THIS Terry is a little unclear, but it's implied it's the same one.

Date: 2010-09-16 02:07 am (UTC)
schala_kid: Stephanie Brown as Batgirl (Default)
From: [personal profile] schala_kid
No, this is in continuity with DCAU's Batman Beyond. In the future from Batman #666 Dick and Bruce are already dead when Damian is Batman, plus in Damian takes DCAU's Bruce role as the old guy behind the bat-computer when Terry goes to fight crime.

Date: 2010-09-16 07:55 am (UTC)
yaseen101: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yaseen101
Not really DCAu since this is in it's own separate universe. imo.

Date: 2010-09-16 08:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ebailey140
Doesn't seem to be the DCAU, given that the Joker was dead and buried, rather than "caught", before Bruce retired.

Date: 2010-09-16 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
No it's not. It's extremely clear that the person handling Terry's training was Bruce.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:51 am (UTC)
xammax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] xammax
Do you and I live in the same Batman canon or is it just me?

Date: 2010-09-16 01:01 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Robin Joker Another day....)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Not sure, Dick's usually tied up in a corner in mine, same for you? :)

Date: 2010-09-16 03:57 am (UTC)
xammax: (Default)
From: [personal profile] xammax
Ok we have some differences. Minor but there. LOL

Date: 2010-09-15 10:20 pm (UTC)
evilsneak: (Default)
From: [personal profile] evilsneak
That's it I'm calling Shenanigans!!!

Where's my broomstick!

Date: 2010-09-15 10:22 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Kouhei " Principal Garren " Hayami, the Libra Zodiarts, is bugged. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
jeez, he's still Nick Furying.

Date: 2010-09-15 10:54 pm (UTC)
minyandu: "I made this!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] minyandu
Bruce you stripped out his costume? Jeez....O_o

Date: 2010-09-15 10:57 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Hey, if he did it with Jason's corpse, he can do it to an unconscious Dick...

Date: 2010-09-15 11:10 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Micro Robin BatPalm)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And rereading that last sentence makes me wonder why my innuendometer didn't EXPLODE before I'd even finished typing.

Date: 2010-09-15 11:33 pm (UTC)
minyandu: "I made this!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] minyandu
Well, at least my brain did scream deafening loud when noticing the stripping part...=_=

Date: 2010-09-16 02:17 am (UTC)
megami18:  Adam West does the Batusi from TV series (Default)
From: [personal profile] megami18
Mine did.

Date: 2010-09-15 11:19 pm (UTC)
minyandu: "I made this!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] minyandu
....This is the part I don't get. Leaving a dying son to unknown fate is totally different from mourning a dead son. I just don't get why every time they need dark, they just shove everybody involve to an OOC dark road.

Date: 2010-09-15 11:53 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
It makes perfect sense that he would remove it, but I always wonder what he was supposed to have done with the remains of Jason's costume in DITF. Hidden them under a rock or something? And then how did he manage to pass Jason's death off as a simple accident? "So my adopted son was just hanging out in this explosives-filled warehouse, with his mother, in his underwear. Yeah." I think if I were an investigating officer that scenario would make me pretty suspicious.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
As I remember, they did somewhat tell the truth--Jason used Bruce's resources to try to find his biological mother and he got captured by The Joker.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:05 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The story Bruce circulated was based on the truth, that Jason was visiting his newly discovered birth mother (who was an aid worker doctor) and was murdered by the Joker as an incidental casualty.

Given his proximity to the bomb and the fire, there would probably be little clothing actually left. the green undershirt would be fair enough, the matching green undies would just be underwear, the rest would be shredded or burned. It's not like anyone was expecting to find robin there,

Date: 2010-09-16 03:54 am (UTC)
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadwing
I got the TPB in front of me...Bruce stated he removed the identifyable parts of the costume...not the whole thing

Date: 2010-09-16 10:11 am (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
Really? I don't remember anyone ever mentioning the Joker directly; even Superman just says that he heard Jason was killed in an Ethiopean warehouse fire.

I considered that most of Jason's clothing would probably be destroyed by the bomb, but then you've got Sheila who looks almost completely unscathed with even her perfect 40's coif still intact. I guess it's just another case of the art failing to match the story.

Date: 2010-09-16 10:32 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I don't have my copy of ADitF immediately to hand, but Sheila tells Batman that Jason's last act was to try and shield her from the blast by putting himself between the bomb and her, so her being a little less damaged, and him being a lot MORE damaged ties in with that.

I don't think the Joker's involvement in the explosion was ever a secret, and it was mentioned (again IIRC) in the Gotham Knights story about Jason's death.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:01 am (UTC)
newnumber6: Ghostly being (Default)
From: [personal profile] newnumber6
Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen!

Date: 2010-09-16 12:33 am (UTC)
sunaya: Sunshine (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunaya
Which is exactly what I was about to say.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:52 am (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
That one word says it all.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:16 pm (UTC)
thebigapricot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thebigapricot
Exactly. Beechen has now fucked up two of Bruce's kids.

Date: 2010-09-16 12:49 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
...What kind of fuckery is this?
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
In fairness this is actually about as awful as Batman Beyond generally was (give or take a bit of awful).
From: [identity profile] an-idol-mind.livejournal.com
I seem to remember the Bruce Wayne of Batman Beyond to be much more human than this. Hardened due to tragedy, yes, but still caring in his own way. He put his life on the line to help Terry multiple times in the series. In Return of the Joker, he kicked Terry out as Batman in an attempt to protect him. Old man Wayne was a hardass, but I never got the feeling that he didn't care about the people around him. If anything, him caring about them was what led him to become more distant - he realized that his presence as Batman had eventually harmed them all. Bruce would distance himself from Dick after that event, but more out of a sense of, "I've got to keep away from the kid for his own good," rather than, "I'm going to strip him out of his costume and leave him for the paramedics and never admit to making a mistake."

Also, this flashback makes no sense to me in the comic's own internal continuity. Why does the Joker kidnap Alfred of all people? Why is the Joker still alive post-Robin, since the book already established that Return of the Joker happened? And why is Dick even mentioning Alfred without explaining who he is, since Terry likely doesn't know anything about Alfred?
essaybee: Essay Bee Comics logo (Default)
From: [personal profile] essaybee
If this is supposed to be in the DCAU continuity, it doesn't make sense either. BB started out with Bruce's last outing as Batman where he has a heart attack or something (been awhile since I watched it). Plus, as you point out, Joker was dead long before Bruce hung up the cowl. (Tim was still a kid when Joker was killed, and by the time of Return of the Joker--at which point Tim was old--Bruce had only been retired for a few years.)

To play devil's advocate--and obvious continuity lapses aside--Bruce probably didn't go see Dick again because of his guilt over a mistake that got him shot. Plus the bullet in the spine ended Dick's career as Nightwing (I'm assuming--haven't read the comic). Bruce most likely knew this but still had a new suit made for him--he still sees Dick as a hero. Plus, Bruce can't be all that cold if he stopped his pursuit of Joker to be sure Dick was okay--he put Dick's well being ahead of the mission. Even with that reasoning, I still don't buy it, but it is a bit of a less harsh look at Bruce.

Dick's bitterness I have more trouble believing. He would fully understand Bruce's guilt, and I would think he'd be the one to break the silence and let Bruce know he doesn't hold a grudge. I could understand a falling out after Babs, but not over an injury in the line of duty--regardless of whose fault it was.
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
He put his life on the line for Terry because he was Terry, and the DCAU guys love Terry. They always went out of their way to have Bruce be a dick to his sidekicks and make Terry Sue out to be the One True Batman.

Hell, he got shot up one time and then Bruce ignored him? That isn't even half the fucking-over Tim got in Return of the Joker. I mean hell, at least Grayson actually got invited back.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:05 am (UTC)
star_of_airdrie: (Catastrophe)
From: [personal profile] star_of_airdrie
Not canon... no no no....

Sleeping with Babs - as a betting gal, I'd give the morning line at 3-5

Okay, he'd strip the costume because 1) who wouldn't? and 2) that whole secret identity thing - nearly 100% chance

But Bruce Wayne never talking to Dick Grayson again? Quite a longshot... 100-1 maybe...

No matter, Batman Beyond is great to read more and fun to watch, actually was watching the series on Amazon Unbox as I logged on...
Edited Date: 2010-09-16 01:08 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-09-16 01:13 am (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
I don't get it. It's supposed to be the idea that Joker aimed at Batman but him Dick because he was right behind him right? So...wouldn't it be Dick's fault for being behind Bruce or not paying attention to the field during the fight? I mean the idea here is Dick knowing this watched Bruce jump down in front of him and waited to get shot....and aren't their costumes generally bullet proof or at least resistant enough so that they'd be fine for the most part and not have what happened to Dick up there?

God this re-launch isn't going as well as I hoped.

Date: 2010-09-16 07:28 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The notion was that Batman swings his cape out to be a more tempting target, forgetting that when you do that, you don't do it in such a way that there is someone behind the cloak target area. Dick wasn't expecting the cloak to swirl in front of him because Batman would never have done that.

Capes and costumes are bulletproof in the comics, not generally in the DCAU.

Date: 2010-09-16 07:58 am (UTC)
mistervader: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mistervader
Well, he did mention the rounds were armor-piercing...

Date: 2010-09-16 01:33 am (UTC)
retro_nouveau: AARP Bruce (52)
From: [personal profile] retro_nouveau
Bruce makes a mistake? Having a stroke I can see, not being able to control every variable in every encounter is ok -- but forgetting small-unit tactics that he trained everyone else to routinely do?

Bruce decides to never see Dick ever again?

Ok, time to see if there's a Starro hiding on Bruce.

Date: 2010-09-16 02:51 am (UTC)
hawkmoondirge: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hawkmoondirge
Okay so I guess the big rule is the fella with the cape doesn't land first becaus ehe uses the cape to divert enemy fire, with nightwing landing BEHIND him however when misdirecting he involuntarily hit dick.

However let me point this out, the canon here makes NO SENSE. Joker should be dead because there is no Robin, why have nightwing your EX SIDEKICK when you have your current one?

As for the whole bruce is a dick....he kinda is here but he's easy to write poorly. No excuse though

Date: 2010-09-16 07:30 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Thank you, I knew there was something else about this that made no sense... THAT'S what it wa.

Date: 2010-09-16 10:14 pm (UTC)
frostedone: (Default)
From: [personal profile] frostedone
Your right! RotJ Said that Nightwing was active in a different city when Tim got Joker-ized. The Joker should have been long dead by the time Dick was shot...

Somethin's fishy.

Date: 2010-09-17 03:22 am (UTC)
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadwing
EXACTLY-

I KNEW something was bugging me about this whole scene and it wasn't Bruce not seeing Dick in the hospital!

We know per Barbara's Dialog in RotJ that Batgirl and Robin were still working with Batman on a regular basis up until Tim's kidnapping, it was after the Joker's Death that Robin was retired and we presume that Batgirl retired at the same time or a few years later. So the line "Hadn't worked with a partner in years" doesn't fly here with the Joker still alive.

So either NickFury!Dick is the lying liar that lies or Beatchen decided to play fast and loose with continuity and canon...again

This sequence would have worked better with a different Bat-Villian who kidnapped Bruce Wayne's beloved Butler and held him for ransom (plenty to pick from there)

Date: 2010-09-16 02:57 am (UTC)
irrelevant: (Batman Beyond)
From: [personal profile] irrelevant
RotJ was bad enough. Now this?

I'm not taking this as DCAU Batman Beyond canon. Because this? Is just bullshit.

Comics writers just have to make everything a billion times more fucked up than the 'toons. Beechen just lost my readership.

Date: 2010-09-16 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ebailey140
It's not set in the DCAU. It can't be, considering the Joker was long dead when Bruce retired as Batman. Not only that, but Dick was in another city being Nightwing (stated directly in RotJ) when the Joker died. This can't be made to fit.

Date: 2010-09-17 03:24 am (UTC)
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadwing
Wasn't it stated somewhere in the comics that RotJ DID happen in this version of the Beyond Verse?

If so this SO does not fit....

Date: 2010-09-16 04:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arysteia
This is everything I already hated about Batman Beyond canon, ramped up to eleven. Million. If it was a true AU, an entirely separate continuity, or an elseworld, maybe. But as the future of the DCAU? Bullshit.

Date: 2010-09-16 06:10 am (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
What I understand from Beyond-verse is NOT that Batman was a doucheface but that everything bad that happened to his sidekicks made him more distant. He didn't WANT Terry to become Batman, but circumstances led him to allow Terry to work the suit and then he realized how much Gotham still needs help.

The others, like Tim, like Dick, like Barb realize that Bruce isn't a total jerk but they tell Terry that to steel him for any stupidity Bruce does in terms of relationships.

Date: 2010-09-16 01:51 pm (UTC)
neev: Be Yourself Until You Bleed (Default)
From: [personal profile] neev
Yeah, that's always been may take on it and I am so, so tired of this TIME TO TURN THE ANGST UP TO 11 bullshit. Whatever happened to thoughtful, nuanced character interactions that work on something other than the I LOVE YOU/I HATE YOU level of interpersonal relations? :/

Date: 2010-09-16 06:13 am (UTC)
frostedone: (Default)
From: [personal profile] frostedone
If this is what Bruce REALLY did then I am not counting this as DCAU canon.

Sure Bruce was a jerk in the later post BTAS seasons 1-3 DCAU, but this...this goes beyond sleeping with Babs. At least that could be reasonably explained as two consenting adults.

Tim, at least he got Tim Drake the necessary help he needed.

This though...damn. What ever happened to Amanda Waller's speech about how Bruce was so caring and stuff in Justice League's Epilogue?

Date: 2010-09-16 12:49 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Gah!)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
Hasn't this already been done before in DKSA? I mean, wtf...

Date: 2010-09-21 10:03 pm (UTC)
freddylloyd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freddylloyd
For 70 years, Dick Grayson/Robin has symbolized the future of the DC Universe. Therefore, if a writer wants to show that future as awful, scary, and fucked-up, he or she has to go after Dick Grayson and/or Robin.

So indeed we get Dark Knight Strikes Again, plus Deathwing, Tim as evil Batman in "Titans of Tomorrow," Return of the Joker, and now this. The upside is that once the writer goes for the Dick Grayson button, there aren't any more to push.

Date: 2010-09-21 10:31 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Jason being badass)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
Shouldn't Jason in Battle for the Cowl be included in that list? I mean Ian Sattler's also already said he's going to be Dick Grayson's nemesis/a major DCU villain. :(

Date: 2010-09-16 02:30 pm (UTC)
comicoz: Really, 99 of them (Default)
From: [personal profile] comicoz
I was looking forward to the build up...this is not what I expected. This seems like bad fanfiction.

Date: 2010-09-16 05:22 pm (UTC)
omnipotent: (Default)
From: [personal profile] omnipotent
This seems like bad fanfiction.

My sentiments exactly.

Date: 2010-09-16 07:45 pm (UTC)
aeolos_sakya: Aeolos Sakya (Default)
From: [personal profile] aeolos_sakya
Isn't this bad fanfiction? To me it is now. I don't care if someone says otherwise.

Date: 2010-09-17 03:37 am (UTC)
minyandu: "I made this!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] minyandu
...Maybe it's not Dick. Maybe it's a trap , all those are lies and that is actually some evil clone or android or some kind of archenemy....It' not easy to stay optimitic these days...

Date: 2010-12-31 03:42 am (UTC)
cass_cain: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cass_cain
Yeah, This takes place on another Earth right? A really horrible, Bruce Wayne's an ass universe that nobody likes. I refuse to believe this is New-Earth.

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