Aug. 27th, 2009 10:59 am
[identity profile] mysteryfan.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily

From Final Crisis #5. Written by Grant Morrison, art by J.G. Jones and Alex Sinclair.

It surprised me. I wasn't reading FC when this came out in December, so I don't know if we discussed it on old s_d at the time. I looked around online to see if anybody had really talked about it and then ran across this, too:

From Action Comics #872. Written by Geoff Johns, art by Pete Woods and Brad Anderson.

Both are on Everyday is Like Wednesday, here:
Post subtitled: Should DC maybe have some kind of rule about the maximum
number of books that can be released in a single week in which the villains discuss raping Supergirl?

This also came out in December of 2008:

From Superman/Supergirl Maelstrom. Written by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray, art by Phil Noto.

The Phil Noto art's gorgeous. Here are two direct links with much better resolution:

Date: 2009-08-27 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darklorelei.insanejournal.com
Ignoring the gross for the pretty. Gorgeous.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nezchan.insanejournal.com
The critic in me really has to take issue with whoever did colours, though. How does sitting around a yellow fire not reflect on the characters, leaving them unaccountably blue?

The linework looks sweet, though.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comicoz.insanejournal.com
I think that's supposed to be shadow, as they were wearing white suits.

White is a great color for camping, no? So clean...

Date: 2009-08-27 04:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jelly_ace.insanejournal.com
Not just rape. Gang rape, if the "first in line" comment is any indication.
Sick, DC. Real sick.

Date: 2009-08-27 04:37 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
well he's the Herald for the Gods of evil.... i don't think they are nice people....

Date: 2009-08-27 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] punishermax.insanejournal.com
Well, bro, he's the herald of Darkseid, he's a pretty evil bastard, it's not liek Luthor said it.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] espanolbot.insanejournal.com
Oh noes, an evil villain! :o

Seriously, considering this is a world where companies kidnap people for illegal adoptions/prostitution/medical testing (Human Resources from 'Batgirl'), teenage girls can be possessed by the God of Perversion (Desaad/Mary Marvel), things like that shouldn't really come as a suprise.

Date: 2009-08-27 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.insanejournal.com
The second story is a blessed relief after the first.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comicoz.insanejournal.com
Supergirl's sitting pose in the second Maelstrom post, 3rd panel is just odd for someone who basically wears a skirt all the time.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nevermore999.insanejournal.com
She wears shorts under the skirt though. And people sit differently when they wear pants than when they wear skirts. I mean, come on.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comicoz.insanejournal.com
True, but it just jarrs with me for some reason. Not sure why.

Date: 2009-08-29 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] woogledesigns.insanejournal.com
That depends on who's drawing her.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volksjager.insanejournal.com
It just reminds me of that gross out in Miracleman where the sketchie Doctor would keep raping Miracle Woman while she was hooked up the dream machine (Dream of the Red King)

Date: 2009-08-27 05:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] menagerie.insanejournal.com
I require context. Mostly just need to know if she's the one to kick their asses or not.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nevermore999.insanejournal.com
Reactron- yes, later on in her own title. Without powers, too. And judging from the solicits, she's gonna capture him with Nightwing and Flamebird's help in a few issues. Not to mention Reactron's statement, in context, could easily mean just beating her up, especially since he never attempts to rape her.

Final Crisis, well, no.

Date: 2009-08-27 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aegof.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)
She never even sees Libra in Final Crisis. She is pretty cool, though, and does well up until story vampire Ultraman shows up.

Date: 2009-08-28 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashtoreth.insanejournal.com
There was someone named Ultraman in FC?

I almost think that's sarcasm, but:

Date: 2009-08-28 05:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aegof.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)
Sure. Evil Anitimatter Superman. Helped save Everything in Superman Beyond, fell into Limbo, got vampired by a universe-eating parasite. Then, in FC, beat up Supergirl off-panel, got heat-visioned into oblivion by an army of Supermans.

Re: I almost think that's sarcasm, but:

Date: 2009-08-28 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashtoreth.insanejournal.com
Oh man. I thought maybe you were talking about an alternate universe Ultra Boy. Then I went 'THEY MADE AN EVIL ANTIMATTER SUPERMAN?'. Then I remembered 'oh yeah, Crime Syndicate! They KILLED evil antimatter Superman?! How could they?'

Re: I almost think that's sarcasm, but:

Date: 2009-08-29 05:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aegof.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)
In my wildest fantasies, it was set-up for the appearance of evil antimatter reality-vampire Black Lantern Superman.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xlineartx.insanejournal.com
Kara. D:

I'll just concentrate on Maelstrom so I won't lose my shit.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] halloweenjack.insanejournal.com
Magic 8-ball sez, "I bet that if you confronted Didio on this, he'd claim that they were really talking about just beating her up, which is totally cool 'cause the guys get it too."

Date: 2009-08-27 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
The Reactron line I actually DO read as "Beat the shit out of", as for the first one, well, they ARE loathesome scum, and Luthor not only HAS the S-fetish, but has had one Supergirl as his long term love interest.

Date: 2009-08-27 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arbre_rieur.insanejournal.com
The line in the second scan isn't necessarily a reference to rape. Maybe there's more context, but on its own it reads like standard villain dialogue. I've see villains make similar statements all the time in superhero comics.

Date: 2009-08-28 12:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wizardru.insanejournal.com
Considering Reactron's behavior in Supergirl's title a few issues after this, I'd go with the "just wants to beat her up/mess with her mind" aspect. Reactron is certainly capable of it, but he's just a sadistic monster, really. He has Supergirl powerless and in his clutches (albeit for a moment) and while he taunts her viciously, the suggestion of rape never comes up.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
Whenever my eyes vomit at the art for early Supergirl, I just take out my Maelstrom and breathe deep.

Date: 2009-08-27 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenmask.insanejournal.com
Why doesn't she wear that great jumpsuit all the time? :[

Date: 2009-08-27 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] retro_nouveau.insanejournal.com
I don't want writers to ever go there, not even jokingly or by equivocation. Not only does it pull me out of the story, but it makes sense to me that no one would ever hurt any meta like that -- given that there are hundreds of them, there are dozens with phenomenal cosmic powers, and they're almost all in one big, close-knit extended-family-kind-of-thing. When the Rogues killed Bart comes to mind. You don't tug on the cape.

It would be great if a little bird started rumors about several criminals who engaged in unnecessary roughness and disappeared shortly thereafter never to be heard from again. I mean, the superstitious cowards already should be nervously looking over their shoulders and whispering to each other about "that Max Lord guy".

Date: 2009-08-28 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bariman1987.insanejournal.com
That's sort of why I thought the "Lian gets kidnapped by child slavers" storyline in Outsiders was incredibly stupid. They know her father is a superhero (that's why they kidnapped her), why didn't anyone say, "Hey, this guy probably has Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman on speed dial, maybe we shouldn't mess with his kid."

I'm futher disappointed that Roy and the Outsiders don't call Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman. They call John Walsh. (Yes, the man does a lot of good work when it comes to recovering kidnapped children, but like I said, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.)

Date: 2009-08-28 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Well, capes are wusses, generally. They don't go in for the whole "retribution" thing, that's giving in to your raaaaage and bucking the system they're supposed to protect, or whatnot.

Gotta be careful around some of them, of course - the Wonders or the Hawks will fuck your shit up but good - but no one's afraid of an Arrow. (You know the Calculator maintains a helpful website. "Black Canary: All known associates are capes, but when civilian daughter was kidnapped, kid died, no retribution of any kind to LoA. 7/10 safety rating for manipulation-through-loved-ones. Batman: Some civilian associates. Sarah Gordon killed by Joker, Batman prevented widower Gordon from killing Joker. 10/10 safety rating for manipulation-through-loved-ones. Wonder Woman: Many civilian associates. Adopted sibling Nessie Kapatelis hurt by Longo mob. Longo mob obliterated within 48 hours. 1/10 safety rating for manipulation-through-loved-ones.")

Date: 2009-08-28 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] runespoor7.insanejournal.com
Calculator's got his info wrong then, because the scene where Bats and Jim learn that Joker killed Sarah Essen has Batman state, in front of numerous witnesses, that he won't stop Jim from killing Joker.

Date: 2009-08-29 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
I find it pretty much completely impossible to read that scene as anything other than Bruce cleverly talking Jim down. Like "I won't stop you" has ever not implied "... because I don't have to, you dipstick, you damn well know better and we both know it, remember?" to any hero in the history of ever, y'know? Jim would have done it if Bruce had kept his mouth shut.

Date: 2009-08-29 12:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] runespoor7.insanejournal.com
Same here, but it would still be a shaky if not disingenuous example to use as a primary proof.

I like to think that Jim wouldn't have done it even if Bruce had been a little more trusting.

Date: 2009-08-29 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Well, he could use TJK, I suppose.... -.-

I like to think that Jim wouldn't have done it even if Bruce had been a little more trusting.

I don't know. Jim's in about the most dubious place he's been, morally, in maybe his whole history there. He hadn't been a cop for more than a year. He was running a gang. A relatively benevolent one sure, but they weren't standing for law and order, there was no law. They didn't bring people in or worry about due process, they beat the tar out of or outright killed the Other Guys in order to drive them off. Jim was making deals with Two-Face and trying to claim territory and spending a huge chunk of the year not being able to trust Batman. And his wife just died, stupidly, for no reason, at the hands of the same guy who paralyzed his daughter, stupidly, for no reason (remember, Jim's the one who would have taken care of Babs during her recovery, so he knows exactly what the price was there). He's got nothing but reasons to do it and he's coming off twelve months being trained into a mindset that would see nothing wrong with it. As strong as Jim is, that still seems like too much to me.

Date: 2009-08-30 12:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] runespoor7.insanejournal.com
I wonder how obvious it is to the various villains of the DCU how susceptible to the persons-he-loves-being-targets Batman is. Brother Eye was aware of it, but the rest?

I'd like to note that just because Batman won't kill whoever killed/hurt one of his loved ones - because this ain't an alternate Earth or an Elseworlds - doesn't mean that villains would be less afraid of him. After all, fear's irrational. Otherwise everyone would be a lot more scared of Superman than Batman, if we went by the criteri of the things they could do to you.

Another side note: I find it fascinating that all of the people Bruce loves, he's met through Batman, with the exception of Alfred and Leslie, and all or almost all of them are heroes themselves. He's definitely aware of the risk people close to him could be in, so the only people he lets get close are people who have the best chances at getting out of trouble.

For Jim, I think it could've gone both ways. You're right, given the events of NML he could have done it, but given his character it would also, I think, have made sense for his character not to do it.

Date: 2009-08-28 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bruinsfan.insanejournal.com
There's a reason most of Wonder Woman's foes are either gods or batshit crazy. Sane super villains wouldn't want to be added to the list of enemies she's put down.

Date: 2009-08-29 04:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bariman1987.insanejournal.com
If not retribution, it still paints a big target on the kidnappers' heads for being found by the superhero community quickly. The Outsiders waited for John Walsh to go on his show, do a special about the ring, then recieve and act on tips he was sent. Batman would have done all sorts of detective work, Superman would use his super-senses, and Wonder Woman would lasso-of-truth some of the slave ring guys that were already captured for the locations of their bases. They would know where Lian was within an hour of being called and busted the entire ring in another thirty minutes, as opposed to the implied several days it took the Outsiders.

At least, that's how I wish things like that would go. Yeah, it's not a good story if they ("they" being whoever is the star of a book) call in the Big Three/JLA/JSA/GLC/Titans or whomever every time they run into a problem such as that, but... yeah. It should be an option when necessary. Pet peeve I guess.


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