Oracle's Tenure with the JLA, Part 2: Introductions

[glprime]

Continuing on from Part 1...

(Sorry for the Spine Smooshing)



So, the NEW League, flush with several NEW recruits, is giving a publicity-driven tour of their NEW moonbase and roster to the press. Get how everything's NEW? Well unfortunately, a NEW Marty Stu villain Prometheus is undercover as prize-winner hero Retro to attack and dismantle the League. He's doing well so far, even managing to take out the BatGod before gut-checking GL and Flash (who he beats by largely bluffing).

Bats wakes up and rallies the group by revealing his ace-in-the-hole, Miss Voice with An Internet Connection.



Aaaand that's it. That's all she does during the entire Prometheus debacle. Yep. Really glad you chose to expose her for that.

Stowaway thief Catwoman (disguised as reporter "Cat" Grant... get it?) grows a brain and just whips him in the nuts, while everyone else stands around listening to his blusterous threats to civilians. Oracle now gets to project her ultra-sweet hologram over the League's round table.



Note: the job is PR management after having their asses handed to them by a Batman-wannabe.

In the next case, the League is dealing with members disappearing alongside a statistically improbable series of disasters and crime sprees.



This would be the first of another JLA theme: J'onn and Oracle mind-meld. Also, notice those totally cool floating flat-screens in the Monitor Room? Never a technology offered to Oracle. Hmmm.



The League's tussling erupts into the White House where they discover the president to be... Julian September?



Seems Julian spent more time studying quantum physics than watching old episodes of The Twilight Zone. Messing with the laws of probability isn't usually a good idea.



I have no idea why Barbara's decided to go brunette for awhile. Apparently Howard Porter thinks she doesn't get enough sun to be a redhead. And must also be trying contact lenses. And collagen injections.

Despite shutting down the machine, Batman is quickly blinked away from the scene, leaving the League without the person who had been working the mystery behind the degenerating state of reality. But Oracle can step in with her years of training and act as his Watson, right? Nope.


Looks like Superman: True Brit could become canon!



So Barbara is understandably stymied by Bruce Wayne having his parents back and not being a total nutjob that crushes all independence and demeans every attempt at self-empowerment uses his incredible focus and drive to fight crime.



Oooh, burn, J'onn. "Men are from Mars..." indeed.



Well, Oracle at least doesn't stand in their way, but how can they understand anything subatomic without- ...oooooh.

So yeah, the Atom pops in, shrinks them all down, and helps them repair seven particles that September had split to power his quantum probability engine or something. This includes the wonderful lampshading of the ridiculousness of Atom's powers: Kyle (an artist and hero with light-based powers) wonders how they can see if they're currently smaller than photons? "You're not, your brain's just compensating with familiar senses. It's best not to think about it." But how could they even have corporeal bodies if they're smaller than-? *SHHH!*

Later, after everything is restored (and Batman wonders why he was transported from D.C. to Gotham unexpectedly), J'onn proves he's not a total dick and goes to apologize to Oracle in person.



It's strange, because Barbara's actually very particular about non-Bat Family intruding on her lair, but then J'onn is the badass wise uncle of superherodom. And he probably brought Choco cookies.



Yes, yes, "his parents are *zzzzzz*..." And apparently Oracle, one of the greatest technophiles in the ENTIRE DCU (behind Ted Kord, of course) "has no interest in being half-robot." Really? 'Cuz being a cyborg is considered fuckin' awesome by about 90% of all geeks.

Anyways, Oracle becomes known to the League as an asset, and will regularly be on call to act as Switchboard Operator and Reference Department. Whoopie.

While Oracle gets to be a total wimp here, it gets even worse next time, when she helps the League goes up against the Ultramarine Corps and the most powerful Amazo android EVAH! (who is actually totally lame and stupidly programmed).



14 pages, 2 from JLA #17 (art by Arnie Jorgensen), 5 from JLA #18 and 7 from JLA #19 (written by Mark Waid)

Comments

[perletwo]

...you're apologizing for spinal smooshing...

...in an Oracle megapost....

*brainn goze all brakey*

normally I'd use my Babs "dangerous librarian" icon for a post like this, but in this case the "my parents are dead" chibi seemed more appropriate.

[glprime]

I wasn't...

It was...

My scanner...

*sigh* Damn meta-textual reading.

[perletwo]

*patpat* Now,now. We've all been there. Some of the Silver Age crack posts, there's just no way not to entendre. :{

[zordboy]

"Anyways, Oracle becomes known to the League as an asset, and will regularly be on call to act as Switchboard Operator and Reference Department. Whoopie."

See, okay. Why the sarcasm? With all due respect to all the paraplegics in the audience, it's not like Oracle can bounce bullets off her eyeballs or go toe-to-toe with Amazo or Darkseid, right?

With everything that goes on on a daily basis on the DCU Earth, keeping tabs of all of that *plus* a league with a very large roster probably *is* a lot harder than it looks. I never minded Oracle's role in the JLA. Again, it's not like she can hit lightspeed on the ground or shove asteroids around with her bare hands.

[aaron_bourque]

There are certain fans who dislike any marginalizing--real or perceived--of their favorite characters. I'm not saying that's what's happening here.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; then why am i bringing it up? Let that be an exercise for the reader.

[glprime]

She's a brain; they treat her like a phone operator. Barbara Gordon had to be on the team for years before they realized she could be utilized as a strategist and secondary leadership.

Or the writers were just crap at showcasing her talents. Reading how she was used in Birds of Prey, it's insulting to see what Morrison did with her here. At least half the published issues don't even feature her, and most of the time she's just a disembodied voice throwing out plot relevant details (meaning it could be anyone's dialogue).

[jelly_ace]

Well, Morrison's take on the JLA was supposed to be about the big seven (as far as I know). Maybe that's why Oracle was left to the sidelines?

[mad]

Or the writers were just crap at showcasing her talents. Reading how she was used in Birds of Prey, it's insulting to see what Morrison did with her here.

I think I'd have to agree. In Final Crisis, when Barbara realized the anti-life equation was infecting the Internet, her solution was "PULL ALL THE PLUGS!" That was Morrison writing as well.

At least half the published issues don't even feature her, and most of the time she's just a disembodied voice throwing out plot relevant details (meaning it could be anyone's dialogue).

I haven't read the bulk of Morrison's run, though it's possible that as with any big team book, not all members get featured all the time. That said, I do think Babs should be a mainstay of the JLA, and it's a shame she's not used more.

[thebigapricot]

Given the fucked up mess the JLA has been over the past few years I am almost thankful she wasn't more involved. And I'm not sure I'd want her near it now with Robinson writing it.

[mad]

That is a very good point.

[zordboy]

Soooooooooo motto.

[zordboy]

"I haven't read the bulk of Morrison's run, though it's possible that as with any big team book, not all members get featured all the time."

This is it.

And again, Morrison's JLA mostly dealt with "It's the end of the Universe!" Ergo, you'd be more likely to need Superman and Green Lantern and Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, than, say, the excellent programmer.

The fact that Oracle's role was "insulting" seems pointlessly melodramatic to me. Is it insulting that Alfred doesn't appear in every Batman story, or that Superman doesn't need to talk to Jimmy in every issue? Oracle just wasn't needed in every single story, so she wasn't there.

[mad]

Oracle just wasn't needed in every single story, so she wasn't there.

That is entirely possible and certainly valid. However, it's really egregious to compare Oracle to Jimmy Olsen or Alfred (as awesome as Alfred is) when it comes to superhero stuff.

As Oracle is also a strategist, detective/investigator, co-odinator and leader (and if she has to, she's still a decent fighter at close range). The OP's complaint that the JLA writers didn't realize her full value and potential in this role is perfectly valid IMO.

Oracle is not just a telephone operator, computer programmer, or info-gofer.

[zordboy]

"The OP's complaint that the JLA writers didn't realize her full value and potential in this role is perfectly valid IMO."

Yeah, but it's a complaint you could make about the entire cast. Which I think lessens it considerably.

[mad]

Or maybe makes the case against the writer overall stronger. =P

I do see your point, though.

[jlbarnett]

The Morrison JLA didn't really do strategy outside of coming up with stuff in the middle of a fight and either having J'onn pass it on. Or even yelling it out and being so awesome it didn't matter that the villains could hear it too.

This wasn't a superteam like the X-men or Avengers that ran detailed simulations of battles in the hologram filled training rooms.

[aaron_bourque]

And honestly, when you've got guys like Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Batman on the team, they are so awesome it wouldn't matter if the villains could hear it, too.

[arbre_rieur]

"and most of the time she's just a disembodied voice throwing out plot relevant details (meaning it could be anyone's dialogue)."

Eh, it's the Morrison League. I liked it, but distinct characterization was hardly its forte. You could say the same for most of the characters during his run. It was a comic about events, not people.

[zordboy]

"Or the writers were just crap at showcasing her talents"

I have to disagree with you there.

For a start, if she wasn't ultra-hyper-talented, she wouldn't be having anything to do with them in the first place.

And secondly, again, it's about context. You could be the most skilled computer programmer in the Universe, but your talent is going to be useless when a giant starfish drops out of the sky, or whatever. You know, the story isn't suggesting she's talentless or useless, it's just, for JLA-level threats to reality, you're gonna want the physically-strong members taking the lead in the fight, not the programming chick. Who is very smart and powerful in her own field -- and we're not saying otherwise -- but she's not the person to call when you need someone to beat up Despero.

Thirdly, as another poster pointed out -- Morrison's JLA was story-driven, it was all big and loud and melodramatic and The End Of The World every five minutes. Whether it's a good or a bad thing (and I was a *huge* fan), there just isn't a lot of room for indepth character development in the mean-time. If you wanted character-pieces on Barbara Gordon, go read "Birds of Prey" or one of the 20 Bat-books published every week. JLA, at that time, wasn't about that. And I'm not gonna fault the title for that. The title wasn't designed that way, and fair enough.

Having said that, yes, with the mess that "Justice League of America" has become since the reboot, I'm glad Oracle (and a lot of other people) have nothing to do with it anymore.

[arbre_rieur]

Agreed.

[mystery]

Okay, getting this out of the way, I don't think Batman crushes all independence and demeans every attempt at self-empowerment at all:)

But much more interesting to me is the 'whatever happens in this world happens for a reason' story reasoning route. It's not weird Babs relates it to getting shot--we've seen her relate plenty of things to her getting shot but I think it's extra weird to see it as relating it to her shooting and to Bruce's loss. 'Sometimes our only comfort is believing there *IS* no chance'? What? But that's her--or what they've assigned for her as an outlook. (Is no chance for her? Really?) It's not Buce's outlook. He comforted himself another way. Weird. Interesting, though!

[yaseen101]

I don't think Batman crushes all independence and demeans every attempt at self-empowerment at all:)

Yeah I agree. That's not Bruce at all, it's just whoever, wrote him that way in the JLA, didn't get him at all.

[mystery]

Yeah. Not really doing a lot of damage here with his two whole dialogue bubbles--one quite pleasantly introing Oracle--and one 'silent staring at his parent's graves' panel.

[glprime]

You won't see much Bat!Abuse in this series, but over in the likes of Batman and Detective, he would be extremely short and condescending to his crew. These are the people putting their lives on the line for you, and you constantly task them for falling short of ridiculously high standards.

My reaction is mostly looking back on the bulk of the comics I was reading when I was younger (and not yet a writer) and going, "what the hell kind of characterization is this?"

But Bruce is mostly detached tactician in the future stories.

[yaseen101]

You won't see much Bat!Abuse in this series, but over in the likes of Batman and Detective, he would be extremely short and condescending to his crew. These are the people putting their lives on the line for you, and you constantly task them for falling short of ridiculously high standards.

Which is completely OOC and misses the entire point of the character. (not talking about you but the writers).

[mystery]

I bet I was reading/have read Batman and Detective at the time you are talking about. And Not necessarily agreeing that it's The One True take on things re: Bruce's character. If he's a detached tactician in this series, why even mention the 'he's a big jerk in another comic'? No offense, and I like this post, but what you're talking about is Not Even Appearing in this Post.

[mad]

Yeah, "there is no chance" doesn't really make sense for Batman or Babs, really.

[mystery]

It smacks, to me, of the whole: this is the best thing that ever happened to me! deal with Babs and TKJ.

[mad]

I'm not sure I get what you mean.

[mystery]

Not my idea, but it's the trope about how writing about Oracle's current condition has sometimes seemed to have tried to make Oracle getting shot about Oracle realizing that it helped her get better in other ways/was beneficial/etc. And touches on the tricky subject of how everybody else in the DCU can get fixed but she can't.

It's complicated, I'm not expressing it well. Maybe somebody else can.

[mad]

It's a complicated issue, to be sure.

Here in the scans above, it seems to be more about a writer going "this is the status quo and here's a vague defense as to why we keep it that way", than any well-thought out attitude on Barbara's part.

Yeah, people have argued that if Bruce can magically heal from spinal injuries there's no reason Babs can't. Something else argued is that and others still will point out the hypocrisy of Babs saying she misses walking or being able to fight the same way that she used to while simultaneously refusing offers like what J'onn gives her here.

I maintain that TKJ was a horrible but typical case of Women in Refrigerators syndrome, because in the isolation of that story, they took a female character and used her as a thing to cause angst, not a character in and of herself with stories of her own. Afterward, however, they could have healed her. But I doubt that was likely to happen, precisely because of the usual double standards (ie, male hero gets healed because he matters, female hero doesn't).

What did happen, was that John Ostrander and Kim Yale decided to pick up the character from where TKJ left her and find a new direction. It's possible that DC wanted to make TKJ in continuity, but it's also possible that Ostrander and Yale purposely wanted to tell a story about Barbara recovering from the traumatizing event, living with it, dealing with her paraplegia, and moving on to continue being a hero.

On a meta-level, I think many people, possibly up to and including editorial over the years, want to keep Barbara in a wheelchair because DC has been praised for having an amazing hero with a visible disability that does not impede her ability to be a hero. And while Barbara's portrayals tend to vary between writers and scenarios, over all, it is a good thing to have characters with disabilities, simply because it reflects the diversity of real people. (There's also a need to combat bad portrayals of disability.)

I think the problem, if I'm correctly understanding the idea you mention, is that in the effort of talking up Barbara's awesomeness as Oracle, people start to defend or justify the wrong done to the character in The Killing Joke. (And unfortunately, I think this is actually DC's stance on the matter, because they still tout TKJ as one of their best books, and frequently insert homages to it when talking about Babs's past.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: TKJ fridged Babs, but she was made a vital and compelling character and hero afterward, and that's what de-fridged her. She's awesome as Oracle, an even better hero than she was as Batgirl, and she's bad-ass in her physical fighting skills.

[mystery]

Here in the scans above, it seems to be more about a writer going "this is the status quo and here's a vague defense as to why we keep it that way", than any well-thought out attitude on Barbara's part.

Very much so. I think that's kind of the driving force.

I'm not at all sure that it breaks down to female/male hero healing. I'm not sure. I can't think of any other female heroes who haven't healed up.

On a meta-level, I think many people, possibly up to and including editorial over the years, want to keep Barbara in a wheelchair because DC has been praised for having an amazing hero with a visible disability that does not impede her ability to be a hero. And while Barbara's portrayals tend to vary between writers and scenarios, over all, it is a good thing to have characters with disabilities, simply because it reflects the diversity of real people. (There's also a need to combat bad portrayals of disability.)

And on a meta-level, people sometimes say, why Babs? Why not so and so who got healed up already?

I'm thinking the idea is mostly: For Oracle, it's great! (I really don't think it's so much about defending TKJ as it is the justification that does seem to tend to crop up in Oracle stories. Where--it's like the scans above. She gets a chance to compare life without the shooting and life with, and she goes with 'with'. Partly because she has no choice (if it was real life versus comic book--not sure what's up with that) and partly because DC is very happy keeping her in the status quo.

I don't think--imo--that DC is inserting TKJ panels because they want to pay homage to TKJ. I think they are doing it because they want to remind us of the trauma. It's like 'My parents are dead'. They aren't reminding us of that for any reason except to remind us of the trauma.

[mad]

I don't think--imo--that DC is inserting TKJ panels because they want to pay homage to TKJ. I think they are doing it because they want to remind us of the trauma. It's like 'My parents are dead'. They aren't reminding us of that for any reason except to remind us of the trauma.

That, I really disagree with.

"My parents are dead" is Bruce's origin story. Barbara was already a superhero when she was shot, nor is she motivated by her shooting. She continued being a superhero after she was shot. Being shot changed her life, but it didn't stop her being a superhero.

Given Barbara's pre-existing talents, all the tools and motivation were already there for her to turn into Oracle whether or not she had been shot. (Whether or not writers or DC editorial would've thought of it otherwise is another question, though.) Afterall, that's why Ostrander and Yale decided to make her Oracle: she was a librarian and a crimefighter who knew the power of information, add in burgeoning computer technology at the time and it must have seemed like the obvious choice to them.

The flashbacks to TKJ, while they certainly are sometimes used to remind us of the trauma she went through, the sheer frequency with which we're shown the exact same panels and colouring (re-drawn) in newer comics makes it more than a little creepy, IMO. I don't mean to downplay the trauma that Barbara went through, but she's been "dealing" with it for so long now (21 years!), that reliving and revelling in those same panels ceases to bring about or reveal any character development. Especially considering there are other ways to talk about her trauma.

If the story calls for a retelling of those events, there are other ways than just repeating TKJ panels. Other writer/artist teams have in fact done that, by focusing more on her being in the hospital, having to realize she'd never walk again, how it affected relationships, how it all made her feel–rather than by paying tribute to TKJ, the story that wasn't even about her. (One example is this one, as well as in Simone-penned BoP, where Babs starts telling Helena some personal secrets as a way of making up to her.)

[mystery]

I can't tell if you're disagreeing with me as well as voicing your frustration with the overuse of shooting references for Babs, but if it's about the shootings as origins--I'm not equating the two shooting tragedies of the characters as both origin stories. Just highly referenced. Highly, highly referenced. Even if there's no panel with a flashback, there are lines where somebody uses the word 'walk' or something and she reacts that she can't and is pained about it. In some stories that I've noticed.

Either way, I'm just as tired of seeing the panels as you are! And yes, it IS quite creepy.

[mad]

Oh, I just was disagreeing with the idea that they only reference TKJ panels for the sake of pointing out the trauma of the event, that there is more at work there. Because I think there are some artists/writers who are purposely paying homage to TKJ when it's unnecessary. I'm just really long-winded and ranty when I explain it. *headdesk*

[mystery]

Oh, okay:)! Stop headdesking!

[mystery]

PS: More here: http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1469469.html?thread=46776349#cmt46776349

[mad]

I found this interesting, because it's almost a parallel to what I posted about Booster Gold #25 (which took me a while to find just now, thanks tag trolls! *grumbles*).

[thebigapricot]

I'll assume the only reason there isn't a flashback panel of Oracle being shot by the Joker is because the woman playing Oracle in this story looks nothing like her.

[mystery]

Heh. I think it has to be the only answer to why is there not A Panel of Oracle Being Shot.

[sistermagpie]

Wait, if Bruce's parents didn't get killed, wouldn't there be a good chance Oracle wouldn't have become Oracle and Barbara wouldn't have gotten shot? I know she didn't get shot on duty, but the Joker would have had a very different life w/o Batman.

[aaron_bourque]

That's not how the luck thing worked. It was oddly selective, affecting ONLY those in the immediate vicinity . . . at first. Then larger waves spread out. But it kept Oracle in the 7 of the JLA.

[jlbarnett]

the whole butterfly affect wasn't really happening throughout this.

[thanekos]

One bad day is one bad day.

[jarodrussell]

'Cuz being a cyborg is considered fuckin' awesome by about 90% of all geeks.

You're adorable.

[yaseen101]

I believe we had a discussion once about how awesome it is to be in a wheel chair, didn't we, jarodrussell?

[jarodrussell]

All I remember is porn.

[yaseen101]

Wheelchair related porn?

[jarodrussell]

A man can dream, can't he?

[yaseen101]

Yes, yes we can.

[darkknightjrk]

Is there such a--oh why am I even asking? Of course there's such a thing as wheelchair porn.

[yaseen101]

Remember, Rule 34: NO EXCEPTIONS!

[zordboy]

Story of my life.

[glprime]

I'm... not really sure where that's coming from in relation to my comment, but if you feel I've insulted your situation, I apologize.

I was more trying to point out that Babs, a heavily tech-dependent character, using the argument, "I don't want to be part robot," is a thought very counter to a fandom that includes followers of the transhumanism movement.

[yaseen101]

Uh, no need to think that. We were both just reminiscing about a conversion we once had about the pros of being in a wheelchair. Also, I am not and never really been in a wheelchair before.

[jarodrussell]

I've made the same comment hundreds of times between 2004 and 2009, let me save you a lot of headache: Barbara Gordon is a luser, she's not a bleeding edge hacker like Hiro Protagonist, The Major, or Alec Hardison. She's a griefer, a luddite, but she's not a cyberpunk, transhuman hero. Bring this up to fans, writers, etc. and they'll say one of three things:

1. "She's not that kind of character."

2. "But then who would people in wheelchairs look up to?"

3. "Being crippled was the best thing that ever happened to her."

You'll never get a logical answer about why someone who wants to walk and hangs around cyborgs is still waiting for a medical breakthrough. It's an anti-koan, an unanswerable riddle that brings madness and rage. Take my advice, write Oracle off as a stupid character created by 20th Luddite idiots and go read Daniel Suarez's novels. There is no answer to the insanity that is Oracle, only confusion.

[glprime]

Consider me enlightened and saved.

(I still have to finish showcasing her appearances, though)

[jarodrussell]

I did what I could.

[lamashtar]

..I'm happy you did!

[sistermagpie]

Every time I watch Leverage now I always look at Hardison and think: This is what I always expect Oracle to be, and keep having to remember she's not.

[jarodrussell]

And won't ever be so long as people like Gail Simone are writing her, which will apparently be forever.