Meet the new teams, mostly like the old teams.

[colonel_green]

Two new covers for the upcoming relaunches of Avengers and New Avengers, revealing a few more potential team-members.


First, for New Avengers:



Four of the five were previously announced, but this clears up any lingering speculation that Ms. Marvel is going to be Siege cannon fodder.  I never thought that was likely, but nice to see it put to rest.

Over in Avengers:



Are Peter and Logan pulling double-duty, or are they just guesting?  I'm guessing the generic blond guy in the back there is Steve.

Hi Simon...oh dear.




 title: new avengers, title: avengers, creator: john romita jr., creator: stuart immonen, publisher: marvel comics

Comments

[tacobob]

It's called TEAM WORK!

And Luke needs his old name back. I like "Power Man". And he needs a costume. Not that ugly thing he used to wear, but something cool. I remember they had a crossover where he was wearing PRIME's costume. Very cool.

[lamashtar]

I thought his old costume was gorgeous.. :( But yeah, tired of this 'i'm a dude in shirt and jeans' stuff. He needs to recognize that he's a role model as a superhero! He needs to put on the tights!

[bj_l]

Why does he need a costume?

[lamashtar]

Because his grunge look is old and tired. He looks like Generic Black Man. Because superhero comic books have a tradition of pretty costumes and if I'm not getting that, I feel like I'm not getting my money's worth. I mean, it's okay to go normal clothes as a change or if that's that character's characterization, but Power Man is a superhero. Superhero's have costumes. If they do not have costumes, they aren't exactly superheroes. It's some book about people with supernormal powers. Again, not what I'm looking for in this particular title or character. If he doesn't want to wear the tights or name, then I'd rather he be phased to some other role.

[bj_l]

Is--is this a joke post?

[lamashtar]

::smacks the troll::

[bj_l]

I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious, this is the kind of post I'd see on other websites taking the piss.

I mean the idea that superheroes have to wear a costume is just ridiculous. I don't see a problem at all with Cage wearing just casual clothes. I've never really seen what he's wearing as grunge either. The casuals fit his character extremely well, and if anything, I would love for Jessica to go into battle wearing casuals, alongside of him.

Costumes are all well and good, but, really I don't read superhero comics for them. Especially since most of them are horribly impractical and stupid.

If he absolutely had to wear a costume, I'd prefer it be a team-wide, low key affair like Quitely's X-Men designs.

Ask ME a rhetorical question will you

[lamashtar]

::has to look up definition of 'taking the piss'::

Ah. Yes, I was being slightly mocking. But 'there is truth in humor!'

The problem is definitions. Stories about people with extranormal powers are either scifi or fantasy. People who dedicate their lives to heroic altruism are often termed 'adventurers' in modern settings; to my knowledge, only the Greeks called such people 'heroes' (I expect this is where the definition of the hero as the protagonist came from. The protagonist might be the hero of the story, but he does not have to be a hero.). There was no expectation of a particular moral code, killing the enemy was pretty much expected. The morality play part came in from the conflicts with the orders of actual gods or large-scale politics.

However, the modern definition of 'hero' is different. Quickly checking the dictionary to avoid rampant stupidity..

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology.
a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

For this conversation, I shall define hero as a person who attempts brave, noble deeds. Feeding the hungry is noble, but not brave. Jumping over Niagara Falls is brave, but not noble.

The superhero genre is a particular form. Not mere scifi or fantasy, it's characterized by a costume, probably originally meant to be part of the 'show' of the story, but definitely underlining that this person was outside the norms of society. Not all superhero-types have powers, the pulp heroes fall within this genre. To give an example, I love the anti-hero Mike Hammer, who runs around shooting bad guys, but he isn't a pulp hero. He's just a a guy. His setting is--I think--noir, meaning he is the only one who sees injustice and is willing and able to do whatever is necessary to combat it, the cops usually being useless or corrupt. In order for Hammer to be a pulp hero, he'd have to wear a distinctive outfit and deliberately go out looking for injustice, instead of nonchalantly waiting for it to be brought to his PI office.

So, thinking as I go...the 'superhero' is generally defined by looking for injustice in some manner and having a distinctive look, and more narrowly by being heroic--anti-heroes using more ignoble means to combat injustice (ignoble varying depending on your point of view). Nexus and Punisher are super-anti-heroes.

Now, Luke was always a little different. He dressed like a hero, but he tried to get paid for his heroics..things just aren't the same as ancient times, when people felt more obligated by your protection...but he was NEVER just a mercernary. I remember one time when Luke took down some muggers and the cops mocked him by throwing him a dime, because they said that was the only reason he did the heroics. He was deeply hurt and offended. But, as evidenced by those ancients and the modern Avengers' paychecks, getting PAID does not make your actions not heroic. Firemen are always heroic. Police are often heroic. Soldiers are sometimes heroic. But most of us who took the job *for* money wouldn't get offended if someone suggested we *only* did it for the money. People who joined the military because of 9/11? VERY upset at the idea of being used against someone who may not be a bad guy.

What you're talking about is wanting to read a story about bodyguard/private detectives/cops with cool powers. Like the Daughters of the Dragon. But they're not strictly superheroes. Almost..but not quite. The Black Widow is also on the shady side of the genre, but she is portrayed enough acting as a superhero to count. Also, the costume. Defying some conventions can make a character interesting, but too many and the character becomes pointless in that particular setting.

Especially in comic books, the visual is important. We see that these people are different. We see that they have really interesting looks that most people can't get away with in real life. Many of those looks serve double purpose to call back to the gods whose superegos ruled morality. Most unfortunately, when I say Luke looks like Generic Black Man, its due to the poor artwork that means you can't really tell him apart from any other black man who might happen to be in his civilian clothes in the picture. Costumes allow us to figure out that this blond woman is Invisible Woman, instead of Ms Marvel, or any other blond woman standing around. They allow us as fans to feel good when we see the costume, not go "who the hell is that?" They allow marketing, and the publicizing of this particular person. Luke hasn't got a lot of marketing/publicizing ability right now.

Luke as superpowered guy is fine if that's the kind of story you want to read, but in my superhero comics I like when the heroes are actual superheroes. Not just guys. If you're going to read a genre, respect it's conventions.

I freely admit I've never been to college and I might be wrong in my literary assumptions.