Marc Guggenheim asks "Why *would* Batman join the Justice League"

[starwolf_oakley]

In a Newsarama interview, Marc Guggenheim says an upcoming BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL story arc will cover why Batman became a superhero, or at least took on the "trappings" of a superhero, including joining the Justice League.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marc-guggenhiem-batman-confidential-100901.html



Guggenheim: I had always been intrigued by the notion of why a character like Batman joins the Justice League.

I'm of the opinion that, if you didn't have Batman being such a big commercial success, he wouldn't be a member of the Justice League. He's on that team because of marketing. But his nature is to be a loner. He's not the type to join a team.

So I get a lot of ideas from having a question like that and trying to answer it. So I tried to come up with a story that would help me explain to myself why Batman would join a team of superheroes.

Either Julius Schwartz or Gardner Fox thought "We shouldn't have Superman and Batman in the Justice League *too* often because we don't want to overexpose them." I can't remember specifically who thought that. It's almost a charmingly naive idea, thinking "Two series for each character should be enough."

Hopefully, Guggenheim will have a better reason for Batman to join the JLA than "to spy on them." Brad Meltzer's JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #0 had Batman uncertain about the whole idea, but wanted to join just to prove to Superman he wasn't afraid of doing it.

True, Batman surrounded himself with like-minded individuals, but it was not the same as joining an established team. Plus there's his tendency to use people like tools in his war on crime, or just make sure they keep out of trouble.

From the criminally underrated WORLD'S FINEST 10-part miniseries:

http://pics.livejournal.com/starwolf_oakley/pic/003b6phb/s640x480




From the JLA YEAR ONE series:

Comments

[warpedhand]

I think, at the end of the day, the real answer is that if the world's going to hell, he wants at least a shot at fixing it, and he can only do that if he's on the team.

Now, whether you think it's something more noble as in "we will be the last line of defense" or more along the lines of "I don't trust any one of these bastards to do the job that needs to be done properly" is up to your interpretation of the character. But it's hard to argue that Batman takes on the mantle of responsibility (and guilt), no matter what.

[starwolf_oakley]

But it's hard to argue that Batman takes on the mantle of responsibility (and guilt), no matter what.

Hmmm. Switching universe, Spider-Man is big on responsibility and guilt, but it took him years (Marvel time) or decades (our time) to even become a reserve Avenger. Of course, Spider-Man has always been more about his own "backyard" and knows that the Avengers rarely take on the Kingpin's goons.

[q99]

In Spider-man's case, though, he generally felt the Avengers were better at taking on the big stuff than he was.

Batman knows he's useful at figuring out even world-threatening problems, while Peter didn't have the confidence to think he'd be all that useful next to Thor and Iron Man.

[ebailey140]

The reason Spidey wasn't a founding Avenger is the same as Daredevil's and Dr. Strange's. Those weren't Jack Kirby characters. Notice, while he drew the series, every Avenger was a Kirby co-creation. I suppose he just wanted to work with his own creations.

[wizardru]

I think it has more to do with the fact that, at the time, only Spiderman had a regular title with his name on it, similar to the Fantastic Four. In 1963, all the members of the Avengers were appearing titles they had taken over, but that were not actually named for them (in the same way Spidey had originated in Amazing Fantasy).

Ant Man & Wasp were appearing in 'Tales to Astonish', Thor in 'Journey into Mystery', and Iron Man in 'Tales of Suspense'. Dr. Strange and the Human Torch traded off positions for Strange Tales. Hulk, after appearing in his own title for 6 issues, showed up in Avengers for 1 issue (and a tiny bit of #2) and then moved over to join Giant Man in 'Tales to Astonish', which eventually became his own title in 1968.

So I think the main reason that Spidey didn't join Avengers is more of a sales decision. I can't find numbers for Spidey prior to 1968...but by that point, Spidey and the FF were selling about 100K issues more than any of the Avengers solo titles or the Avengers title itself. I'm betting that was true in 1963, as well, since Spidey was so popular that they renamed Amazing Fantasy for him, something that none of the characters apparently warranted (and despite the name, Strange Tales wasn't originally a Dr. Strange book).

[comicoz]

I think, at the end of the day, the real answer is that if the world's going to hell, he wants at least a shot at fixing it, and he can only do that if he's on the team.

I can go with that if you then take it and say he's essentially on the team to be able to use the people as tools. Essentially he's made the moonbase his expanded utility belt.

[crinos]

Heh, I remember hearing when the original writers for the JLA told Management about the request to keep Supes and Batman out of the JLA, their response was "THOSE SO AND SO'S DON'T OWN SUPERMAN AND BATMAN, WE DO! USE EM."

[anothermoviegeek.blogspot.com]

This is why I always loved the DCAU first Justice League where Bats tells the newly formed League "I'm not a team player. But when you need me...and you WILL need me...call me."

[warpedhand]

Well, the DCAU often has the best written and most distilled version of the major characters. Especially Batman, the Flash, Lex, and so on.

[wizardru]

MOTTO.

[ebailey140]

Post-Infinite Crisis, aren't Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman founding members of the JLA?

That's especially tricky for Diana, since, according to her own series continuity, she wasn't around, yet. Judging from the recent WW #600... We have Nessie's graduation from High School, which would make her 17 or 18. She was 12 or 13 when Diana first became Wonder Woman, so Diana has only been WW for six years at the most.

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, being around when a team is founded and wanting to stay with said team are two different things. Sunfire would tell you that.

[domino_blue]

I just found it natural to tell you the truth, Bruce is not a loner, he like to think he is but once you get down to it he actually teamed up with more heroes then most and created more heroes out of inspiration or training them. I found it just to be a excuse he uses because he wants to be the one to take on the danger even if his allies are superman or green lantern. He feels he is the expendable one because he is trying to atone, while everyone else is doing it because it's the right thing to do.

[starwolf_oakley]

He feels he is the expendable one because he is trying to atone, while everyone else is doing it because it's the right thing to do.

Bruce thinking "My parents are dead... and it's all my fault!" is relatively new. Is that what you mean by atoning?

[schala_kid]

I found it just to be a excuse he uses because he wants to be the one to take on the danger even if his allies are superman or green lantern. He feels he is the expendable one because he is trying to atone, while everyone else is doing it because it's the right thing to do. .

I find it funny because Clark usually takes the expendable role too, but for a different reason. I think he mentions in a comic that he thought of himself as the muscle and that anything can happen to him and that he just buys time for the whole team and the smarter team members to formulate a plan.

Naturally this pisses off Bruce a great deal.

[wizardru]

World's Finest is a criminally under-appreciated gem, I agree. It shows a transformation, both of Superman and Batman, along their respective timelines, at least the Post-Crisis versions of them. Thanks to a few more decades of meddling and sliding continuity, it's a bit more confused.

But I liked how this series showed how different they were...but also how much they each benefited from cooperating and eventual friendship. Each found things to appreciate in the other and that was some good writing.

[jlbarnett]

I want to slap people who call guys like Batman and WOlverine loners. That's why they attract people like flies wherever they go. The fact that they are capable of being on their own and comfortable does not make them loners. There's much more evidence that being around people is their prefered state.

[an-idol-mind.livejournal.com]

No way is Batman a loner. A loner wouldn't be constantly attracting more surrogate members of his family. Behind Batman's tough exterior is an emotionally crippled, very needy individual.

[retro_nouveau]

Meh. Of course he would join. He might be a paranoid control freak, but he would respect anyone who was active in trying to make the world a better place. He would recognize the benefits of cooperation, maximizing complementary strengths and compensating for individual weaknesses. He would want to be involved so that he would at the very least be aware of what's going on without having to resort to spying on and potentially antagonizing them. He would be loathe to have to depend on anyone else, but he would definitely engage where it advances prospects for his mission.

[starwolf_oakley]

He might be a paranoid control freak, but he would respect anyone who was active in trying to make the world a better place.

Indeed. Which is why the "Batman is an asshole to other superheroes" aspect of his character really bugs me.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

"Batman's a loner."

Good, valid point. Him being in the Justice League makes little sense. It's not like people have contradictions!

[jkcarrier]

Of course, the notion of "Batman as scary loner" is a relatively recent development. Back when the JLA was created, he was as friendly and gregarious as any of them (in the origin story, he's even the one who first suggests forming an official league).

Really, it makes perfect sense for the less-powerful heroes to want to pool their resources so they can take on bigger threats. A better question is, why is Superman there? On the remote chance that he runs into something he can't handle alone, is he really going to call Green Arrow and Aquaman for backup?

[darkblade]

What if Lex creates a fish made of kryptonite that can only be destroyed by shooting sharp peices of wood through tiny holes?

[sistermagpie]

Others have said it, but you'd think that "Batman isn't really a loner" would be the biggest not secret in the DCU by now. You'd think the whole "Batman and Robin" "The Dynamic Duo" would be the first clue. I know that stuff is from the time period before he got the antisocial edit but it's still canon.

[jlbarnett]

I'd like to see it treated like that in universe, a "not secret." Everytime he says he's not a team player someone is laughing in the background. Clark and Diana plainly humor him. The JLA holds contests on who can do the best "Why I'll join this team depsite not being a team player" Bruce impersonations.

[jarodrussell]

Guggenheim: I had always been intrigued by the notion of why a character like Batman joins the Justice League.

Spoken like someone who has never been the smartest person in the room never worked in IT is a good candidate to write Batman.

[recognitions]

Despite all his myriad sins, I actually liked Brad Meltzer's approach to this question in his JLA run. As much as it scares Bruce to need people, he still does. And the JLA is one of the few places where he can actually be around people with common interests. And Bruce is about nothing if not facing and overcoming his fears.

[schala_kid]

Oh yeah Batman's a loner, a loner alongside people like Batgirl, Robin, Nightwing, Oracle, Catwoman, Huntress, The Outsiders etc.....

Um no, Bruce might be paranoid, not very social, and the most difficult person to get along with but there's no fucking way he's a loner, as a matter in fact he's one of the heroes who works good in teams. and Bruce loves his JLA he might not get along with people like Hal but he loves that team, plus there's no way you can't convince me he's not friends with Clark, Diana, J'onn and others.

Oh and the moment Alfred was in his life Bruce stopped being alone.

[aaron_bourque]

Yeah, Batman's a total loner, what with Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, Robin/Nightwing/Dick Grayson, Robin/Jason Todd, Robin/Red Robin/Tim Drake, Batgirl/Oracle/Barbara Gordon, Batgirl/Cassandra Cain, Batgirl/Robin/Spoiler/Stephanie Brown, Azrael/Jean-Paul Valley, you know what? That's enough.