Request: the best (or worst) of Batdickery

[starwolf_oakley]

During the 30 Days of Scans, many of us have said Batman's biggest flaw/drawback/etc. is when he's a jerk to other superheroes. Sometimes Batman is a jerk for a reason, sometimes just to be a jerk, sometimes because he's Batman.

So, how about some examples of Batman being a jerk to other superheroes? And if Batman is being a jerk just because he's Batman?



From INFINITE CRISIS #1.


From JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA #0.

Comments

[q99]

One thing I find ironic is his plan for her absolutely sucked, it was easily the weakest of the bunch. Trapping her in an intense simulation until she suffers a heart attack works until the battery runs out because I'm pretty sure Diana's heart will fail approximately never by that method.

[jaybee3]

Well, to be fair, Diana doesn't really have an OBVIOUS weakness (like Kryptonite) which is why she's better in a battle than Superman(though DC would never admit as much). That said the weakness (Waid?) wrote for her was pretty weak though I suppose one could fanwank it to Bruce thinking the best way to stop her is to keep occupied indefinitely (the heart attack thing never made any sense to me either).

[kamino_neko]

It was actually worse than that...she was ACTING OUT the scenario playing in her head - making her at least as dangerous as if she were evil.

Frankly, the only plan that was any good was the one used against Kyle. Superman's was untested and untestable; Wonder Woman, J'onn and Flash were serious backfires (as was Superman, but that was part of the untested aspect), as they remain dangerous after the plan is enacted; Flash, Aquaman, Plastic Man, and J'onn were positively sadistic; Aquaman would take too long to have an effect.

It's been argued that the sadistic elements were played up by Ra's - but that only works for Plas - all the others, removing the sadistic element also removes the effective element.

That's ignoring the difficulty in deploying most of them (especially the hypnotic suggestions used against Kyle and Orin) when they were needed. The Kryptonite, nanite cloud (J'onn), and liquid nitrogen (Plas) are the only ones that could easily be deployed in a combat situation against these people - trying to tag Wally or Diana, or hypnotise Kyle or Orin while they're in full combat mode is a pretty silly idea.

[starwolf_oakley]

That was actually touched on in (of all stories) PAIN OF THE GODS written by (of all people) Chuck Austin. Wonder Woman was fighting a female foe that was (almost) as strong and fast as she was, like in the VR chip. She beat said foe, but was emotionally knocked for a loop.

[shadowpsykie]

well i for one LOVED the Trinity Schism in Infinite Crisis. They all made really valid points. Batman IS right, the last time Superman was an inspiration was when he died. Superman and Wonderwoman were right when they said Batman was a control freak. Wonder Woman was right when she said she did what she had to do with Lord.

they were all valid points to split on and honestly, as much as i loathe the killing of that incarnation of the freedom fighters, juxtaposed with the Schism, it was beautifully executed. the three greatest heroes,all of which COULD have prevented the massacre had they been on earth, were all bickering while people were getting killed. And the death of Uncle Sam (he got better) at the moment of the break of the Trinity was rather poetic

[icon_uk]

Yeah, have to agree that it's not really Batdickery if he's actually correct, just... poor PR.

[fifthie]

"well i for one LOVED the Trinity Schism in Infinite Crisis. They all made really valid points. Batman IS right, the last time Superman was an inspiration was when he died. "

Except for the like, million times since then that he inspired people.

[fifthie]

I would give anything for Clark to look at Bruce in that first scan, and then go like "so... kind of like your parents?"

[fifthie]

"Oh wait that's right I came back. But I mean, that was because I really loved the people I had left behind."

[mullon]

If Clark had punched Bruce into the sun at that point, I wouldn't have blamed him too much.

[nezchan]

Clark's response really should have been "What are you Bruce, six? Grow the hell up and deal with your issues for a change."

[fleur_de_liz]

He's probably regretting protecting Bruce when Booster Gold tried to laser him to death.

[eightleggedbeast]

And yet no-one's fully pointed out to his face that Batman making himself and himself alone the central knob of everything is why all these contingency plans get hijacked and why everything is periodically coming crashing down.

'But being alone- that's weakness!' is not saying that.

[newnumber6]

Personally, I think Batdickery is the only reason I like Batman. If it wasn't for that, he'd just be dull.

One of my favorite batdickery points was at the end of that Tower of Babel one, where Oracle's talking to Batman about the fallout, and saying how Robin's complaining that his team trusts him less by association.

Bruce's reply? "If he was smart, he could turn that into an advantage..."

Love it.

[proteus_lives]

Meh, they're all dicks in the second one.

I think Clark and Diana would approve of humans knowing how to kill them if they go rogue.

Plus it's the human/non-human thing. Admit or not characters like Superman and Wonder Woman do not consider humans their equal. Bruce feels that.

[q99]

Eh, WW does have a 'what's important is you do what you do well,' and once felt *really bad* that she had to ditch her McDonald's job, the honorable task of delivering food to those who want it, to go fight crime.

Diana treats everyone she respects as an equal, and with that lasso on her we can be pretty sure she's not faking.

[kingrockwell]

"Non-human"? "Does not consider humans her equal"? Do you even know Wonder Woman?

[hawkmoondirge]

Wow, uh when did all three of them become douches?

I know Batman is typically a loner, but he's been a people person at heat. Robins, bat girls, extended characters, the league, he's quite social. AND as the only full blooded human, who lets face facts is smarter than half opf the league (Saying Wally, Plas, etc) it'd make sense he'd have plans.

GBatman is soooo easy to write terribly, it's quite sad.

[yaseen101]

I agree with this comment.

Personally I think he should not be in a League at all. He works best when he is a Detective in the crime/spy/adventure genres where he deals with more grounded situations. Brave and the Bold and B:TAS did this well, imo.

[tsunamiwombat]

This was mostly shitty author being shitty author.

1. Batmans plans would be clever.
2. Batman would not have let anyone find out about said plans.
3. Batman would not write down said plans in a convenient file, and
4. Batman, while being a dick sometimes, is not this much of a dick.

[frostedone]

I think one of the reasons why they got so mad at Bruce is not just because it was a secret and that the plans worked (Even if Ra's took them), but that he is always pulling jerk moves like this.

To quote Charlie Murphy on Chappelle's Show "He is a habitual line crosser."

He is always the angry, bossy, scary teammate and this might have just been the last straw.

As for the comment about Superman and Diana thinking they are above humanity I disagree with. Why else would they risk their lives protecting people, even if it is just one random person that they do not even know?

I do take issue with batman using a gun/bullets in some of these plans though since he is so against them. Darkseid being the exception.

[starwolf_oakley]

Maybe I used the wrong examples. I was hoping people would talk about or post examples of Batman acting like a jerk to other superheroes. "Tower of Babel" may have been the wrong example, since that was just Batman being a jerk when one of his "plans" was used for "evil."

[arysteia]

Yeah, the problem with that one is people don't all agree, and never will all agree, that he was being a jerk at all. Comes down to your personal perspective on contingencies, and the twain will never meet. Post effectively derailed.

[gehayi]

I liked superheroes better when they DIDN'T act like dicks. Batman was around for years before he became a control freak who didn't trust his colleagues, desperately needed to know their weaknesses, and strove to use their weaknesses against them--and I have to say that the old Batman was better.

This version isn't a hero--he's a jerk.

[yaseen101]

I have always said that in the 00's Batman is a 'male wet fantasy' hero.

Thing is I don't mind if Batman or any other hero kept files on how to beat other heroes considering how many evil!counterparts and mind controllers run around in the DCU but the problem is that both sides 'holier than thou' attitudes are being pushed to the extreme. It goes on to the point where you literally can't choose any sides on this because everyone's being a dick.

It's basically 'drama for the sake of drama' y'know the best kind of writing?

[yaseen101]

Bat-Dickery is pretty much drama for the sake of drama. Plain and simple. Problem is no one really tackled this seriously or rationally and most writers don't have the chops to handle these kind of issues. More often than not they'll just fall back on the simplest reason imaginable for it by just grasping the surface details of the conflict.

[starwolf_oakley]

Right. At times you wonder "Didn't Alfred teach Bruce any manners? And if he did, do those manners just go away around other crime fighters?" Maybe all the elements of "Bruce Wayne, arrogant prick" come out when the costume goes on.

I wasn't really looking for general Bat-Dickery. I was thinking examples where "Batman is a jerk to other superheroes." But that really *is* the Bat-Dickery we all talk about. Batman is (relatively) polite to Commissioner Gordon, non-corrupt Gotham Cops, and the innocent Gothamites he protects. At worst, he's either brusque or vanishes while someone is still talking. Other heroes, sometimes even the Bat-Family members, get the "Captain Jerkass" treatment.

[psychopathicus_rex]

Personally, I actually find that second scan kind of sad. I mean, Wondy is absolutely right there; Batman is retreating farther and farther into himself and shutting out other people in the process, and he's not even AWARE of it. She's mad here, yes, but she's also trying to be a good friend by helping Bruce come to a realization about himself, and he's not even listening to her - he's just being smug to himself. He's not going to have a lot of company in his old age, is what I'm guessing...