icon_uk: (Default)
[personal profile] icon_uk posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I found these uninked, unlettered pages from "Fear Itself - The Homefront" over at Mike Mayhew's CAF page and thought it'd be interesting to share them. Besides I LOVE seeing pencil art.

A new team of villains, who look like some sort of revamp of the Force of Nature, or at least some form of elemental loons (I don't recognise them, but that might be Whirlwind leading them, and one of them might be the Living Laser) arrive in Sanford and start laying waste to anyone who gets in their way. It's a rather blatant murder-fest, and given their powers, no one dies easy...

Robbie Baldwin, being the upstanding guy he is, switches to Speedball in front of Miriam Sharp and goes out to confront them. Given their powers include fire, ice, lightning bolts, lasers (Is that Living Laser?) and superspeed spinning, he does well against them, up to a point, but when they all attack at once...



Oh that's nice, some good Samaritans come to assist the exhausted hero who just saved their asses...

Oh wait, of course they're not, these guys are MU civilians, and so decide to take revenge on Speedball for the criminal act of Nitro... but I'd rather not go down that rant-laden path again on a Friday evening...

After some minor beating the crap out of him whilst he's down (I'm guessing he used up his power reserves fighting the bad guys) they decide to move on to the next step, a bit of lynching....

Now given Speedball's powers, ways to kill him aren't easy to come by, since most forms of assault require kinetic energy and his powers tend to trigger if enough energy to harm him comes into contact with him. Clearly though, these guys have been pondering how best to murder him should the chance arise, which is a deeply bloody disturbing thought.



Speaking personally, deliberate asphyxiation would be one of the most horrible ways to go I can imagine.... Looks like Robbie agrees.



Mr Generic Angry Faces 1 2 and 3 are enjoying themselves a little too much, and then....



Now I'm not a fan of the character for the most part, but damn if that ain't a badass way to make an entrance.

I'm hoping this is her coming to realise that Speedball is NOT the embodiment of all evil that she's been presuming him to be all along, and that trying to save strangers from being murdered is actually kind of a noble and admirable thing, especially since, in her own way, that's just what she's doing here herself!

Date: 2011-05-21 09:17 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
The reality of a civilian reaction to superhumans would somewhere between the Marvel: HATE/FEAR THEM! and DC's: WORSHIP THEM/HERE'S A MUSEUM OF YOU!.

Date: 2011-05-21 11:06 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I don't know, unless they're actively causing massive amounts of property damage while being an asshole, I'd have thought that the DC outlook would be more realistic.

I mean, there's someone who risks their life on a regular basis to save the world, hero worshipping them a little doesn't seem that unreasonable.

But then you get jerks like that woman from the start of Superman's Grounded arc, who targetted the one hero who'd feel the worst about her crazy rant, who blamed Superman for her husband dying of cancer whilst Superman was off saving the world in the War of Krypton arc.

Although it does set up that nice scene later where Superman is walking through a neighbourhood, sees a guy on the verge of a severe heart attack and tells him to seek immediate medical attention, if she's approached anyone else they'd have given her a hug and started a charity in her husband's name, provided her children with university tutition or something.

But nope, she goes after Superman the one guy on Earth that is pretty much unanimously liked by everyone (except for that time when that corrupt businessman who wasn't Lex when all Glen Beck on him).

Date: 2011-05-21 11:13 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
"I'd have thought that the DC outlook would be more realistic."

I've always wonder why DC civilians are so submissive to their heroes.

I think DC goes overboard a lot of "they're above us, don't question them" and Marvel goes bonkers with "Outcasts! Freaks! Fear them! Get them!"

Date: 2011-05-21 11:20 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I thought that it was less "they're above us, don't question them", more "They're here to help, like policemen, ambulance drivers and firefighters, being dicks to them doesn't make that much sense".

Not to say that people aren't dicks to those people, in my town there was someone going around trying to blind ambulance drivers with a laser pointer, but if they're in a job where they're there to help you out and have the capacity and ability to do so, let them.

Not like you'd be in a situation where a guy's been run overby a truck, and when a doctor rushes up to help them, a third person yells "You act so high and mighty, like you're in control of life and death, but you're NOT!!!" and throws rocks at them. Which is what a lot of the anti-superhero sentiment in Marvel seems toboil down to.

Date: 2011-05-21 11:35 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
Oops responded in the wrong place.

Copy:

"Which is what a lot of the anti-superhero sentiment in Marvel seems toboil down to."

I think it's more complex then that. I think in the MU, heroes are allowed to be more flawed (human) and prone to mistakes. And in the MU the governments and media are more realistic (for better and worse). Same type of example. JJJ's spidey-hate machine at the Daily Bugle and Superman's fawning fan-club at the Daily Planet. Each company focuses on a different angle.

"They're here to help, like policemen, ambulance drivers and firefighters"

Yes but those people are also accountable to us. Heroes/vigilantes often are not. There are good and bad sides to that.

"High and Mighty". A lot of Marvel and DC heroes act like that.

Date: 2011-05-21 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
...Yes but those people are also accountable to us. Heroes/vigilantes often are not. There are good and bad sides to that...

Also, bystanders in these things do not choose to be in life-threatening situations, but they're subject to the whims and decisions of those who did choose it. So there's that. :/

Date: 2011-05-21 04:51 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Jimmy Olsen in his Natural Habitat of the Silver Age (jimmy doubles)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Yeah, except, well, no. They don't act like high and mighty, and the accountability criticism is also...well...no. In the DC universe, heroes are technically accountable, because the Justice League smacks down heroes who cause trouble. And if one of the Justice League goes rogue, the other members smack them down too. The heroes keep each other in check. They are held accountable. Unless all the heroes conspire to start ruling over humans, any complaints that "they're not held accountable" fall flat. Heroes are people too. And even if the entire Justice League went all Justice Lords on the Earth, the Green Lantern Corp, etc, would promptly invade and topple them.

Marvel heroes aren't quite as organized, which gives civilians more leeway to be resentful, but it's still a bit stupid, because having heroes who occasionally cause trouble is vastly preferable to having no heroes at all. Sure it would be better if they were well-organized, but remember: in Marvel time, it's only been thirteen years since the Fantastic Four went up in their spaceship. An appropriate, stable status quo has yet to be established, and Marvel is perpetually in a state of semi-stasis because of the sliding timescale.

Date: 2011-05-21 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
But who watches the Watchmen?

The DC heroes are accontable... To themselves. (or in this case, to other heroes) they're not really accountable to anyone else. In effect they're a superpowered aristocracy, they're not oppressive dicks (far from it) but there's really no way of making them NOT be oppressive dicks.

Which is one reason i can actually sort-of understand the MU government's tendency to fund killer-robots: If they'd get it right it would balance the playing field somewhat.

Date: 2011-05-21 05:38 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Deadpool > the Universe (respawn lol)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Well, that's what the Green Lantern Corps and other alien heroes are for. To intervene if things get out of control.

Quick note though: I once read in a Superman comic once that scientists in Metropolis was building a weapon that could take down Supes. Not because they were afraid of Supes, but because they know he gets mind-controlled a lot. Supes said this was a really good idea. (I personally think it wasn't that great an idea, but only for one reason: knowing the DCU, Luthor'd probably get his hands on it.)

Date: 2011-05-21 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
And that still puts the power into another group of superpowered individuals who are not accountable to you in any sense.

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Date: 2011-05-21 09:49 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: Charlie Crews vs. Faucet (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
The DC heroes are accountable... To themselves. (or in this case, to other heroes) they're not really accountable to anyone else. In effect they're a superpowered aristocracy, they're not oppressive dicks (far from it) but there's really no way of making them NOT be oppressive dicks.

DC has done some nose-tweaking of the government wanting to monitor/control meta humans, especially in OUTSIDERS (vol 3.) #50. Batman explains that public superheroes were going to start being monitored by the FBI, CIA, Metahuman Affairs, etc. With the heroes "under the microscope" the bad guys could have more options.

For the most part, the DCU government is more concerned with keeping track of superheroes rather than telling them what and what not to do.

Date: 2011-05-22 01:55 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
there was someone going around trying to blind ambulance drivers with a laser pointer,

....Now there's being a dick and there's....that's just evil and I'm disgusted.

Date: 2011-05-22 06:11 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Here's the story in case you thought I was making it up,
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2059443_five_arrested_after_laser_attacks

Date: 2011-05-21 02:39 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Some Mondays aren't bad at all (clois)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
I totally agree that DC is more realistic. I mean, that's how I'd personally react to having my lives constantly saved by people who want nothing in return. I might be suspicious at first, but I sure as hell wouldn't stay that way after being clobbered by evidence over and over.

Then again, the DC heroes are a lot more organized than the Marvel heroes and gave civilians a better first impression (JSA > Namor and Torch), and really are a lot more police-like than Marvel heroes. Also, there aren't fifty zillion heroes all crammed into one city. I'd say the attitude of DC civilians is realistic for the DC situation, but while it wouldn't be necessarily realistic for the Marvel situation, the attitude of Marvel civilians is not realistic for the Marvel situation either — something between DC and current Marvel would feel about appropriate.

Date: 2011-05-21 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
[shrug]

I think I'd be more likely to react by wanting all of them to go the fuck away and stop trashing my shit and nearly getting me killed over and over again.

If heroes really could be "realistic", the first thing they'd do at signs of trouble is get themselves and the villain to the surface of the moon, where they could beat the shit out of each other for a week straight if they wanted to-- without any civilians or civilian property getting torn up.

But that would lack a certain drama. Heroes and villains are nothing without their audience.

Which is why it's better not to ask for "realism" from these things, no matter who's doing the publishing. ;)

Date: 2011-05-21 04:39 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: (booster and beetle n'approvent pas)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Hahaha! Oh my, I'm sorry, but this exactly the kind of ridiculous illogic that Marvel citizens use. Look at what sindra said: if you're suffering from radiation treatments for cancer, you don't blame the treatments, you blame the fucking cancer.

Also, what exactly do you mean take the villains to the moon? What kind of logic is that? The heroes aren't powerful enough to go to the moon, nor are they powerful enough to take the villains to a secluded area. If you read comic books, they frequently try to lure villains away so that they can beat them up without accidentally injuring civilians. They always fail, because the villains aren't itching for a battle, they're itching to pursue their own goals. Seriously WHAT? Do you honestly think villains are willing to duke it out with heroes like fucking victorian duelers when what they actually want is to escape the heroes and use their powers to continue to commit crimes and get rich by preying on people? Come on. I'm sorry, but this may literally be the silliest thing I've ever read in my life.

Date: 2011-05-21 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
But that's the point. The heroes are repeatedly privy to knowledge that civilians ARE NOT privy to. The perspective of "the man on the street" can't be the same as that of the hero. At least not all the time.

Most people don't think clearly in the midst of destruction and disaster. That's human nature.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Marvel and DC both have supporting casts of characters who cultivate relationships of some kind or another with heroes? (Or vice versa.) They're still "normal" people. It's just that they know heroes and are known by them better than unnamed figures on the street.

...If you're suffering from radiation treatments for cancer, you don't blame the treatments, you blame the fucking cancer...

I wouldn't open that can of worms in a mythos that only allows for these two choices, frankly. IRL, I wouldn't blame "cancer" for anything. It's not a living entity with a conscience or ability to do anything but GROW. Not a real good metaphor here.

I would sure as fuck blame anyone who proclaimed themselves in a position to help me deal with this THING, but chose not to. Insurers, for example, spend a great deal of their time (in the U.S.) denying care to people who need it so they can make money. To cite one example.

But that's a whole other can of worms.

Date: 2011-05-21 05:01 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Deadpool > the Universe (respawn lol)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Well, people frequently refer to social problems as "cancers", so I don't think it's a bad analogy, but there's also the idea that you don't say "we should get rid of all cops" because cops occasionally get into fights with criminals and cause collateral damage. Even if the heroes aren't as neatly accountable to you as cops are, having them around to battle bad guys still sure as hell beats supervillains preying on you at will.

Date: 2011-05-21 05:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
[shrug]

I get you, but I move in circles at times where referring to a social problem as a "cancer" is discouraged-- for exactly that reason. The enemy is NOT an unfeeling, conscienceless agglomeration of cells. "It" is humans doing things to other humans, and needs to be treated as such if countering the problem has a prayer of being successful.

I'll leave the cop thing alone, as it plays out IRL. I've had a couple of lousy experiences with the police myself. (Yeah, so what am I doing squeeing over superhero comics, then? I don't know. Humans just plain make no sense. :p )

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Date: 2011-05-21 04:57 pm (UTC)
nezchan: Toony version of me, more or less (Default)
From: [personal profile] nezchan
I remember an old Teen Titans issue featuring Dr. Light back in the days before he was irreversably tainted, where he just wanted to do a damn robbery and not bother with fighting superheroes. He wanted to get rich, not destroy some enemy.

Date: 2011-05-21 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
[nod]

As for civilians, I remember characters like Stevie Hunter in the X-Men, who told Kitty and Ororo something like, "Your life scares the crap out of me, but we're friends and I always stand by my friends, no matter what."

But I stopped reading comics for a long time. Maybe there's fewer characters like around than there used to be. :(

Date: 2011-05-21 05:13 pm (UTC)
baxter2814: Damn you Norman Osborn! (sad spidey)
From: [personal profile] baxter2814
Yeah, shitting on the concept of principles is a trend *cough* One Moment In Time *cough*

Date: 2011-05-21 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
I died a little inside when I saw that they'd made over Shimmer to look like some kind of shopping-mall Goth. :(

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Date: 2011-05-21 05:09 pm (UTC)
nezchan: Toony version of me, more or less (Default)
From: [personal profile] nezchan
Wasn't he originally pushed into that by Psimon? Maybe I'm recalling it wrong.

In any case, the issue I'm thinking of it where he's on his own, being chased by a bunch of Hindu (I think) deities, and he figures he can just pit them and the Titans against each other and take off with the loot himself.

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