Marvel Sues Creator of Ghost Rider, Removes his only source of Income

[espanolbot]

Gary Friedrich, the creator of Marvel Comics' demonic motorcyclist Ghost Rider, has been ordered by a judge to renounce his creator credit and pay $17,000 in damages to his former employer following a court battle that began in 2007 disputing legal ownership of the character.

Essentially what happened was that Friedrich sued Marvel, claiming that they should pay him a percentage of the money that they're making from Ghost Rider merchandise etc. In response to which Marvel countersued, in a legal move that they won, and a judge has ruled that he must now stop refering to himself as the creator of the character, most stop selling non-licensed artwork at conventions (his only source of income at present) and on top of that must pay a fine of $17,000 from what little money he has.

Kind of a dickmove Marvel, especially with the new Ghost Rider movie coming out soon, which they're bound to make tens of millions of dollars from even if it fails critically. Seems to be that they don't like any creators that aren't Stan Lee.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/09/ghost-rider-creator-lawsuit/

For legality, one of his covers,

Comments

[kirke_novak]

creator: gary friedrich,

Legally, no!

[glprime]

Poor taste.

Funny.

But poor taste.

[darkknightjrk]

Wow...that's just fucked up. I think I saw the best description of this on Topless Robot--this makes some of the ethical questions concerning Before Watchmen look like small fries in comparison.

[darkblade]

Alan Moore while screwed over by both DC and Marvel (or at least their UK imprint) has it a lot better off than many writers and artists the big two have screwed over.

[mrstatham]

That's still a different matter entirely and doesn't make what happened to Moore any less wrong.

The manner in which Moore has been fucked over regarding Watchmen is a matter of rights. This is more about creative control and gaining credit for something someone made. Moore still receives money and turns it down, from what I understand, for Watchmen. From what this says, it looks like Marvel are refusing to pay Friedrich money he's rightfully owed.

Moore also moved on and did different work and different concepts, whereas I'd never even heard of Friedrich before this. That said, when Marvel have been such pieces of shit that they've refused to give Jack Kirby credits where it counts in the titles he helped make famous, is anyone really, honestly surprised Marvel pulls moves like this?

[jlroberson]

And forcing him to pay money he doesn't have. All to make him an example to anyone who ever tries to challenge them over rights again.

It's an ugly company and ugly business, and having elsewhere seen fans falling all over themselves to excuse Marvel and DC over both these matters, I appreciate S_D even more. People here actually give a shit about the people who made their comics. While sadly, what I'm being reminded of elsewhere is that fans just want to keep their trough full. An example: one of MY Twitter followers, to my shame, said this:

"I buy comics to be entertained not to support creators LOL"

It was the LOL that really got to me.

[mrstatham]

I don't know whether it's the fact that comics are like some kind of bizarre niche or whether certain fans tend to take the scorn pointed at comics internally and spew it back at creators like some kind of vicious circle, but some fans really do sicken me in the attitude they display toward the people putting together the projects they sell. No-one here, of course, because while I do see some vitriol occasionally directed at the storytelling prowess of writers and the crumminess of particular artists, I've never seen anyone downplay the basic rights of a creator.

It's either some kind of bizarre loathing or they're just brainless - I remember seeing one topic on ComicBookResources' forums about 'why doesn't DC just put out books that don't do so well in print in a digital format', and for the life of them, they couldn't get their thick skulls around the equation that 'smaller digital-only audience + lower price = LESS PAY FOR CREATORS'. In fact, they blatantly ignored it. So I honestly don't get the attitude of fans.

Yes, it's fine to call Moore a grumpy old man (he would most likely admit it and probably HAS), but to treat him like some kind of.. I don't know, leper, because he dares to speak out against the companies and how they treat people like him. It's disgusting. And what's happening here is worse. You could almost guarantee it would never happen in any other industry, yet certain elements of comic book fandom are so fucked up and insular that they take anything thrown at the Big Two like a dagger to the heart. And as long as DC and Marvel have these apologists, it'll keep happening.

Of course, it doesn't help when you have people like Jason Aaron failing to read between the lines when Moore says controversial things and making Moore out to be some sort of crazy hermit. Aaron has never been put through the same misery as some creators. If Scalped was taken off his hands, refashioned under a different team, or they conned him at Vertgio, then he'd know what it's like.

[darkblade]

I don't mean to say there is anything wrong with Moore speaking out against the big companies. What bothers me about him is how he tries to portray himself as something of a martyr against them.

[mrstatham]

But does he? The only time he actively says anything about it and his perspective is when he's directly quizzed, and in some instances, people are actively lying about things he's said, as was the case with the V movie. He's only spoken out about the Before Watchmen stuff because someone went and asked him.

If you're talking more about his comments about the lack of originality in comics or how DC are still riffing on his ideas years later, it's hardly inaccurate either. Also, so what if he does? They've treated him like shit in several major instances, and whilst they have offered him money, money isn't everything. Some basic common or garden morality is massively needed at DC and Marvel, and this case just shows it.

Just because Moore's willing to beat the drum and shout the loudest against these people when he's spoken to, doesn't make him a martyr, nor do I think he wants to be one.

[jlroberson]

The idea that DC is riffing on his ideas: everyone knows this. Lots here certainly have commented on it. In the Sinestro War/Blackest Night thing Johns was to a large degree relying on the reflected prestige from pursuing an idwa left around by Moore. So anyone who claims they're not is just plain wrong, in some cases hypocritical.

And in the case of Watchmen, what else are they doing? That one RELIES entirely on Moore's ideas, unless they're planning to imitate Gibbons' art style.

I would agree Moore has no desire to be a martyr. He doesn't act like one; he's quite good-humored. Did you see his webcast that he did for those who contributed to the Pekar statue? When he DID approach the idea, I thought he was pretty funny about it, didn't sound bitter--if displeased, but that's different. (I also loved his joke that the only source of fights between him and Moorcock is who Grant Morrison has ripped off Moore, each contending the OTHER was ripped off more)

This

[jlroberson]

Very well said.

[darkknightjrk]

Also, as Bleeding Cool pointed out, this decision gives Marvel precedent to kill the concept of Artist Alley and fan commissions in general.

[brooms]

Kind of a dickmove Marvel,

understatement.

sad stuff.

[icon_uk]

Well, that's bloody depressing.

[ar_feiniel]

Marvel countersued in 2010 and sought damages against Friedrich for selling Ghost Rider merchandise of his own creation to the tune of $17,000.

Marvel has agreed to drop this countersuit provided Friedrich pays the $17,000 and discontinues using his creator credit for financial gain.

That's fucking petty. I can understand Marvel fiercely guarding copyrights, but actively smacking down someone for taking a few meager crumbs is pure corporate greed.

[jlroberson]

How else do you make an example? Have to kill that. Kirby managed to get away alive when he challenged them. They can't have that happen again.

[nyadnar17]

He sued Marvel. I really don't know what else he was excepting to happen. In my mind the dick move part is the chilling effect this could have over the former grey area of creator's selling non-licensed artwork.

[kusonaga]

It isn't so much that he can't call himself the creator of Ghost Rider, he can't actively promote himself as such and say, call up a newspaper and go: 'Yeah, that Ghost Rider movie coming out? I created that character. Want to interview me?' Basically, he's not allowed to use the credit to his benefit.

Add in the fact that Friedrich's creation of Ghost Rider is already in contention and that it was work-for-hire... I'm not siding with Marvel, but Friedrich kind picked the wrong fight.

[jlroberson]

It wasn't work for hire as we understand it when he created it. There weren't any contracts at that time.(seriously) It wasn't till 1978 those contracts came in at Marvel, and there is still dispute as to their validity. If you created anything for Marvel before 1978, any WFH concept is after the fact and any contract regarding that would have been retroactive.

[mrstatham]

The work for hire argument is the same bullshit they bogged Kirby down with, and it's completely ridiculous. If you created a character, you should be able to promote yourself as such, regardless of whether you own the character or the company does.

[aeka]

As nauseating as this whole situation is, I am sadly not surprised by this at all since the Big Two make it so that they *own* characters that others create and they publish.

In fact, I seem to recall having this conversation with greenmask over on noscans_daily not too long ago...

[greenmask]

We did

It stank then too. Ugh. Ugh!

[lbd_nytetrayn]

I wonder if this will have any bearing on Ken Penders vs. Archie...

I don't know if I can say anything more than that, so I won't, but that's one thought crossing my mind upon reading this.

[jlroberson]

It's not just a dick move. It's evil, and is intended to make an example, and they're doing it because they know Friedrich is an easy target.

I won't be buying any Marvel again. I shouldn't have been anyway, but between this and DC with Watchmen, I'm pretty much at the point of going back to an old rule I had before Grant Morrison sucked me back into the mainstream: if the copyright is not in the creator's name, I don't buy it.

Period.

Marvel, in any case, deserves punishment for this.

By the way, people are organizing. There's this.
https://www.facebook.com/SupportGaryFriedrich

[blackruzsa]

I'd support Gary Friedrich, but I'd be kidding myself if I said I'd boycott Marvel.

[mrstatham]

Annnnnnnnnd *that's* how they get away with this kind of shit.

[blackruzsa]

Sad but true. It's like Disney. You can't escape it.
Actually, it IS Disney, so there's that.

[frostedone]

You would think that a company like Marvel who publishes super heroes would treat it's creators right. This is bullcrap.