Earth-2 Superman: Before and After

[aeka]

Oh boy. Just when I was starting to get excited for the rebirth of the Earth-2 universe, they just HAD to come out with THIS.

So do you remember what was special about the Earth-2 Superman and Lois?



That's right. They were the first incarnations of the characters to get married and live happily ever after, up until Crisis on Infinite Earths anyway.

And then, DC had to come out with this shit for their new Earth-2 Universe.



“Mourning the death of his beloved, Superman carries both a sadness in his heart along with the weight of Earth 2′s welfare upon on his shoulders, while never showing this and seeming to all that he is this world’s peerless champion,” said EARTH 2 writer James Robinson.

“What would you have to do to teach Superman to kill?” asks EARTH 2 editor Pat McCallum. “He’s endured the loss of his home world, and now the Last Son of Krypton must weather the death of his soul mate Lois Lane. Just how far can you bend the Man of Steel before he breaks?”

Sigh. So much for the Superman marriage. Whoever speculated on the last post that Lois Lane would be dead on Earth-2, you were right mate. DC why you do this? D:

James Robinson, if this was your "bright" idea, I think you should've campaigned to write an Earth-3 book instead. Earth-2 IS NOT Earth-3 damnit! I can understand making Batman's world dark, but extending death and tragedy over to Wonder Woman and Superman as well is a bit much. So far the only happy person from Earth-2 is Power Girl.

I'm not sure I want to still read about an Earth-2 where BOTH Selina and Lois--two of DC's most awesome women--are fridged in order to inspire both Batman and Superman into becoming killing machines, and Earth-2 Paradise Island is massacred on top of that so that Wonder Woman can gleefully chop heads off in rage. Seriously, DC. What the HELL are you doing? This is neither new, original, or compelling storytelling material. This is the same exact shit you wrote post-Crisis, only now it seems less dark compared to this new Earth-2.

At this point, if I pick up this book at all it'll only be for Peege and Hunts.

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

I get what you're saying, but I guess right now I've pretty much accepted that it's going to be a pretty different animal from it's original, so I'm just waiting to judge it on it's own merits.

That being said, I kinda wish that Supes was wearing that in the DCnU Earth. It's like Lee actually listened to some of the complaints while designing these Earth Two costumes--no extraneous lines or oddities, just a sleek, modern Superman suit.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah that's what i always assumed. its earth 2, but its not the same earth 2, its a new earth 2. I accepted that a while ago. so like you i am going to wait to see how it turns out.

[aeka]

I knew it was going to be a different animal from the original. That wasn't the point. My point was they're not doing anything remotely new or original by going this route, and I'm especially tired of the all too problematic trope of fridging strong female characters to motivate the male heroes into pushing their morals. To go from dark to darker was quite frankly unnecessary and not anything remotely different from what they're doing on the main DCU now.

[abriel]

Yeah, I think I'll be skipping the Earth 2 stuff. If I want to see/read about a Bruce Wayne who kills I'd pop the Tim Burton Batman movies into the DVD player.

Besides aren't they already doing the "darker, edgier" thing with Supes and Wondy in the mainstream DCnU? The new 52 Supes has a lot more attitude than pre-Nu did, and Wondy's book is gory as hell. In the last issue she killed a centaur by punching her bare arms through him. So why do they feel a need to make an even darker version of them on an alternate Earth?

Seems like a waste of time to me.

At this point I'm not sure I'll even pick it up for Peege. From the solicits and stuff I have seen, she might be Peege by name but she isn't my Peege.

[espanolbot]

I thought that it wasn't actually Bruce Wayne Batman in Earth Two, as it appears to be slightly ahead of Earth One in terms of timescale (grown-up Supergirl and Huntress and all).

I kind of thought that it was Damian, to be honest.

[his_spiffynesss]

So, NuEarth-2 is going to be Crime Syndicate Earth-2 but without the evil doppelganger names?

[shadowpsykie]

ummm don't think so.... there is not indication that clark WILL kill. it says "what will it take to push him to kill" not the same thing... just being willing to kill does not make them the crime syndicate....

[shadowpsykie]

i don't think they are going to make them killing machines... or making wonder woman "gleefully choping heads..." that assumption i think might be a bit harsh, (Is it possible? yeah its very possible, but that is not a forgone conclusion). but are these heroes who are willing to kill if need be? then yes i can see that. might they be more willing to kill? perhaps... but that does not always mean killing machine...

that said i don't like that they killed lois and selina... honestly im a bit miffed about that...

but that doesn't mean this is going to be a bad series... it just means it looses some potential...

maybe i am being too optimisitc or naive, but i always try to reserve judgment on a book until it comes out, even them i give them an issue or two yeah it migth bite me in the ass... there have been several stories where i thought i would hate it, but i ended up really liking them.

[aeka]

i don't think they are going to make them killing machines... or making wonder woman "gleefully choping heads..." that assumption i think might be a bit harsh,

So I'm not entitled to be harsh in my criticism considering how DC's treatment of female characters has been problematic in several ways (mainly to push the boundaries of their male characters) since the post Crisis continuity, only to pretty much recycle those same tropes in the reboot? Okay then.

[terabient]

I love Power Girl and Huntress, but Lois Lane is my favorite comic character ever. I have zero interest in reading about a world where she doesn't exist, especially when her absence is used as an excuse to portray a totally boring grimdark version of Supes.

On an entirely shallow note, Superman's Earth-2 outfit is okay. Better than Earth-1, at least.

[aeka]

Right? Lois has always been one of my favourite DC women, and it pisses me the fuck off that they fridged her on Earth-2 just to make Superman 'edgier' and 'darker.' One of the things that I loved about the original Earth-2 continuity was that Lois and Clark married and it LASTED until COIE wiped that all away.

I'll probably read this book up until Huntress and Power girl end up on the main DCU Earth, but afterward? Bring back Earth-2 Lois (and for that matter, the rest of Paradise Island) and we'll talk about me being long term reader.

[pyrotwilight]

Huh, well. There possibly goes the likelihood of this Superman being Conner like figured.

[jaybee3]

So just for the record - the whole Clark/Lois are meant to be together no matter what universe/timeline they are in (yes, Dan Didio, I read all those Superman Elseworlds in the 90s that pushed that message ad ininfinitum) and the dissolution of the (happy and working and successful) C/L marriage in the regular DCU (to the point they released it to the media while the couple were still married in the comics), the only actual place where we can see/read Lois and Clark as an actual couple is in apparently in the Johnny DC/Superman Family comics meant for kids?

OK.

Somebody (or more than one somebody) seriously has issues with marriage over at DC. Beyond Marvel/One More Day levels even. It's getting to the point its ridiculous.

And ironically it's the OLD Earth-2 characters with successful life-long relationships like Dian Belmont & Wesley Dodds, Inza and Kent Nelson, Joan and Jay Garrick, Alan Scott and Molly Mayne, Lyta Trevor Hall and Hector Hall, Carter and Shiera Hall, Lois and Clark, Selina and Bruce that showed that superheroes don't have to end up alone and dark and edgy with "a sadness in his heart". What was so wrong with that concept? What?

[leikomgwtfbbq]

Personally, I think superhero marriages are really sweet. I wish they'd stick, but noooooooooo, we have to have the boring grimdark MY WIFE IS DEAAAAAAAAAAAD bullshit (and it's always the wife, of course).

[stubbleupdate]

(And DC wonders why Marvel is whooping their arse in sales? This would be an example of why.

in January, 10 of the to 10 selling books were DC books, Dc had a greater unit share and were only slightly behind Marvel in dollar share. That's not much of an arse whopping.

The reality is more like

than

[mrstatham]

Pretty much. Marvel only makes more money because A - Their books have less pages and cost more, and B - Marvel puts out more than 52 books in a month. That DC have kept up is pretty damn impressive, given that Marvel takes every opportunity to completely suck EVERY franchise they have dry.

[stubbleupdate]

Surely the only logical solution is that this had been editorially mandated by Batman/Superman shippers.

[shadowpsykie]

0_o... if they go in that direction... i'm not sure how i would feel.....

Of course!

[benuben]

This is the Justice League from Itsjustsomerandomguys Happy Hour, where Joker made into hype cliche anti-heroes with dead loved ones, because of dark gritty craze!

Seriously, this has been done so many times and very often the point of these stories was, that suchthings just don't work.

Wasn't Earth two supposed to be about JSA?

[kd_the_movie]

Yknow im actually okay with this.

Admittedly i've never been too high anyway on DC making a BIG DAMN DEAL ABOUT EARTH-2 because really in the age of modern sci-fi, an alternate uni. where the heroes age and have kids isn't really as groundbreaking as it was 40 years ago. So I was kind of annoyed that when E2 was reintroduced, it seemed DC was going the IMO outdated path of dedicating another alt.uni to the boring premise of "heroes aging and being parents".

But if E2 is going to be the darker universe AND have the heroes as older/parents? Thats a bit more deeper of a concept.

[liara_shadowsong]

But... but... Lois. Earth-2 Lois is dead? Screw that version of the DCU, then. Lois is one of my favorite characters, and the idea of her being fridged for absolutely no reason besides grimdark angst makes me rather angry.

[aeka]

Right there with you on the angry, mate. I was so looking forward to this book until (a) it was decided to make E2 Wonder Woman the last of the Amazons, and (b) it was decided to fridge E2 Lois to give E2 Superman something to grieve about. That last one especially broke the camel's back for me.

As I said on my original post, I'll probably only get as far as Huntress and Power Girl getting stranded on the main DCU Earth from Earth-2. But after that? Only when they bring back E2 Lois and the rest of the E2 Amazons, will I come back as a full time reader.

[tauruschick12]

Why

do I get the sudden feeling Superman and Wonder Woman will start dating in the new Earth 2 like they do in almost all alternate continuties

or Wondy will be in love with him or some shit

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

Why do I get the sudden feeling Superman and Wonder Woman will start dating in the new Earth 2 like they do in almost all alternate continuties

The only way that could be acceptable is if it were the result of Lois and Steve Trevor having an affair.

[big_daddy_d]

You know..one of the things I hoped to see in Earth-2 is how the Green Arrow Clan turns out in this earth and hopefully there's an adult Lian...I am now abandoning that hope.

[jlbarnett]

Earth 2 should be the world where heroes are better, not worse.

I want escapist fantasy damnit and I don't think I'm alone

[bewareofgeek]

"Comics universes used to be places I wanted to escape to. Now they're places I'd want to escape from."

I suspect things won't get better until they fire Howard Mackie, and get an EiC who doesn't buy into this "chief creative officer" BS.

[filkertom]

DCAU for me. Superman is not an edgy character, dammit. If I want to read an "edgy" superman, I'll break out my old Alan Moore Miracleman.

[swatkat]

I'm happy with my World's Finest, thanks.

[bradygirl_12]

Silly me, I t hought that Earth-2 might be even lighter than Earth-1, considering that was the way it was often in pre-Crisis days. The heroes came from a simpler time comics-wise and were shown to be happy in their marriages while everything was still not all rainbows 'n' roses. In pre-Crisis days you got all the marriages mentioned by another poster and Diana/Steve as well.

Fridging Lois and Selina is an old, tiresome trope. Like many others here, I DO NOT WANT a darker, edgier Supes OR Wondy. Batman does dark, not these two, at least not to this extent.

And talking about fridging, notice how many times in canon or Elseworlds the Amazons get mass-fridged?

[aeka]

Hmmm...I'm not sure if I would describe Earth-2 as being lighter than Earth-1 since it didn't feel too different in tone, but I do think Earth-2 definitely had a more Golden Age feel than Earth-1.

That being said, yeah this was not the Earth-2 I had in mind either. I was at least expecting the Lois and Clark marriage to remain intact amongst all the changes they were making, which we now know this isn't happening. At this rate, if DC killed the Amazons and Lois to push Wonder Woman and Superman into becoming darker heroes (which how again is this different from what is happening on Earth-Prime right now?), I'm putting my money on Selina's death being the reason Batman is more ruthless on Earth-2, in addition to having his daughter stripped away from him.

All in all, someone at DC got the concept of Earth-2 completely wrong, and whoever is the marriagephobe over at DC that's deciding heroes shouldn't be happy and married needs therapy. One of the appeals of original Earth-2 was that it depicted positive portrayals of loving relationships, and it was the world where the heroes were allowed to age and retire, thus letting their kids take over the crime-fighting schtick.

[meowshi]

As an aside, it would be awesome if people stopped using the pejorative adjective "grimdark" all together.

[salinea]

Good luck with that.

[gamerguy]

Still no trunks. Sigh.

[amaniwolf]

Agreed, apparently trunks are the bane of costumes now.

[crabby_lioness]

Another reason not to read DC, like we needed that.