Date: 2012-03-22 04:06 am (UTC)
venatosapiens: griffin vulture (Default)
From: [personal profile] venatosapiens
Well, at least the Flash remembers his manners.

I'm actually enjoying Diana's parade of expressions at the constant interruptions. It's a nicely human moment.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:24 am (UTC)
golden_orange: trust me, i'm wearing a vegetable. (Default)
From: [personal profile] golden_orange
Pretty good so far.

But one issue of possible complaint: Is the JLI Batman's deriding there supposed to be the same one he's appearing in and, thus far, has not had any complaint about whatsoever? And in fact appears to have vocally and enthusiastically supported?

Because if it is, that seems like a bit of sloppy writing.

(Of course, I'm assuming that this is still in the past and before the current JLI is set up, which would work a bit better.)

Date: 2012-03-22 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I had two thoughts about it:

1. It does take place a little before the events in JLI where he gets involved.
2. This is him acting out what people think he would say about the JLI, and he's still the same guy in JLI, where he thinks the actual heroes have potential but doesn't really trust their higher-ups.

Date: 2012-03-22 05:02 am (UTC)
golden_orange: trust me, i'm wearing a vegetable. (Default)
From: [personal profile] golden_orange
Good points both.

Date: 2012-03-22 05:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
Didn't he get involved with the JLI in the first issue, like just before their first mission, hours after they became a team for the first time?

Date: 2012-03-22 05:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
So it's probably the second option then--he wants to keep a semi-secretive eye on the group, and if he starts being all nice about them, people might get suspicious.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] blueprintstyles
I think Batman has faith in Booster Gold, but not a U.N. owned justice league.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:44 am (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
Huh. I'm actually starting to like Steve here.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:57 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Some of the dialogue gets a little grating ("Super friends?" Seriously?), but I'm really liking the direction they're taking here--it's kind-of a mix of the JL:TAS series, the plot from the first season of JLU, and a tone similar to the first few years of JLI.

Date: 2012-03-22 07:52 am (UTC)
biod: Cute Galactus (Default)
From: [personal profile] biod
So is Bats talking about the same JLI he whole-heartedly supports in that book?

Date: 2012-03-22 07:55 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
As said above he probably approves of the heroes involved but not the concept of a superhero team created for political posturing that's controlled by governments.

Which, really, are valid concerns considering how it's panned out in the series so far.

Date: 2012-03-22 11:43 am (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Then why doesn't he say that in the issues of JLI where he joins and fights with that team? And why does he encourage Booster to continue with the JLI and effectively validate the group? It sounds like editorial just dropped the ball, there.

Date: 2012-03-22 07:53 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I know that Hal's meant to be something of an impulsive idiot in this series, but wasn't he in the air force same as Steve?

Date: 2012-03-22 09:43 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
"Top Gun", to us it's a movie, to Hal, it's a "Guide to Life"

Date: 2012-03-23 11:46 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
The difference is, Steve Trevor cut a man's throat in Cambodia once.

Hal didn't.

Date: 2012-03-22 08:52 am (UTC)
eyz: (Bruce Wayne)
From: [personal profile] eyz
I preferred the "bigger than life" DCU from before Flashpoint than this Marvel-like take on the DCU...

Date: 2012-03-22 11:56 am (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo

I miss a JLA that I actually like and can aspire to be like as more than just a power fantasy.

On a kind of related it actually THAT ludicrous for the world's governments to expect the gods floating above them to have transparency? For that matter, the idea that the governing bodies of the planet should want to actually have control over its protectors shouldn't *automatically* be treated with suspicion by all involved either.

I'm pretty sure even the most benevolent world leader wouldn't just blithely let a handful of ridiculously powerful superhumans set up shop in a secret satellite orbiting the planet without wanting to keep some kind of eye on them....

Date: 2012-03-22 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
it's ludicrous that despite it being five years later, despite Hal becoming Parallax, despite Batman being broken by Bane(both of which still happened) that the Justice League interaction is identical to the previous issue.

Date: 2012-03-22 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] hyperactivator
You see that whole scene with Trevor implies some pretty paranoid beliefs. The first and formost is that the government cannot and should not be trusted.

Date: 2012-03-22 09:59 am (UTC)
golden_orange: trust me, i'm wearing a vegetable. (Default)
From: [personal profile] golden_orange
Paranoid or not, there's been plenty of times of late when that seems a pretty damn reasonable approach to take, really.

Date: 2012-03-22 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] hyperactivator
I don't mind it as a plot point but dislike it as a plot device. Like say it was part of the storyline that Starro was infecting government officals and none of them could be trusted that would be fine. So would showing that the current leaders are evil,corrupt or stupid on there own. This creates conflict like the JLA cartoon.

But this is basicly the JL outright saying that it is above any form of oversight because they are better than any government. And then blackmailing people into allowing them to do whatever they want. Not heroic and not interesting because the conflict is resolved and isn't a major part of the story. It's just outright saying that the JL is infallibly good and anyone who dares to question them is evil and or stupid.

Date: 2012-03-22 09:45 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I agree, and felt that the instant grovelling on the part of the politicians when Steve threatened them was very poor.

Date: 2012-03-22 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
look at it this way, it opens them to corruption or it opens them to bueracracy. Bueracracy may be worse because that's treated as a normal part of governance.

Date: 2012-03-22 11:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
So basically, in every other DC books the heroes are hated and feared like the X-Men on crack.

But here, the heroes are worshipped as gods to the point some in law enforcement are jealous.

Way to be consistant!

Date: 2012-03-22 04:51 pm (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
I think it's basically comparing the Avengers to the X-Men but here it's Justice League and then everyone else.

The League is trusted because they're the heroes who saved Earth from Darkseid they're otherwise similar in ability to damage and so forth but are seen in a better PR light.

Date: 2012-03-22 12:28 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Batman's opiniond are probably these:

1. The heroes of the JLI working together as a team is good, even if they are rough around the edges.
2. The JLI team, or any team of metahumans operating under the auspices of the U.N. is *not* good.
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
Okay, am I only one here, who doesn't like the scene with Trevor? To me it seems just soooo unbelievebly cheesy and cliche.
And when you think about it, doesn't that kind of makes Justice League seem very...... unheroic? I mean, if these guys have secrets so bad, shoudnt JL reveal them anyway? And yeah Trevor, threatening them like that is totally going to make people trust you. You suck at this. If I was at their place, immeditely you would leave, I would be calling Amanda Wall, buy her tons of ice-cream, and order her to send Cadmus, Suicide Squad and everything they have on your asses.

"People want them to take your jobs already, maybe they'll just do it."
Hmmm. Doesn't that reminds you anything Geoff Johns?
From: [personal profile] md84
Maybe the twist is that Steve is actually a villain like Gilbert Godfrey in disguise trying to make Congress afraid of the League to discredit them.
junipepper: (jumplines)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Yeah, that last line was really off-putting.

Actually there's a kind of ugliness woven all through this, although I'd find it hard to define, exactly.
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Nope, you're not the only one.

Date: 2012-03-22 03:50 pm (UTC)
perletwo: odyssey wondy (amazon noir)
From: [personal profile] perletwo
I am now trying to imagine those facial expressions of Diana's and Steve's on the webcams, as drawn by Jim Lee were he at the drawing board this ish. is not going well.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:49 pm (UTC)
quatoria: An extreme close-up of my eye, with the blade of a knife just barely touching the bottom edge of my pupil. (Default)
From: [personal profile] quatoria
Wow, that incredibly unsubtle threat, followed by "We apologize! We're sorry! Please don't spank us, Colonel Trevor!" Can any of you actually imagine a high level political operative acting in that manner? What he just did would be tantamount to declaring war on them. Argh, this makes my brain hurt.

Date: 2012-03-22 04:54 pm (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
Oh I like it. It's dumb but honestly that's how many government people would act to real superheroes, well I'd think anyway. They're so used to being superior and having the power of the government on their side that its so easy for them to put their foot in their mouths and to not think about what they're saying.

Date: 2012-03-22 06:38 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
Maybe, but it's still like the stupidest thing he can say on their defence. And just reread that scene and honestly, if this is some setup to Justice League vs Goverment, I am rooting for goverment.

Date: 2012-03-22 10:05 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
why? Because in the real world it's logical not to trust people with that kind of power?

Date: 2012-03-23 01:36 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
No, because in this world it's apparently logical as well.

Now, I'm not saying the League is in wrong here, I get why they don't trust goverment, I hate them as much as anyone else, but Steve here is trying as hard as he can, to make them look like dangerous, not good to be trusted and aggressive felowship of soon to be evil overlords. That writer guy is right, Steve is the key to destroy the Justice League. He is pretty much doing it right now.

And BTW, if they don't want government to tell them how to do their job and have access to their things, they propably shouldn't convince them to spend billions of dollars, just so they could tell them to fuck off and go home, when they show interested in what they do!

Date: 2012-03-23 11:01 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (jumplines)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
...right. This is exactly the problem. Thanks for clarifying that for me! :-)

Also, superheroes who persist in acting like kindergarteners.

Date: 2012-03-24 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I don't think the government financees them. THey offer some supplies and stuff it looks like.

over all I'm always willing to read a story where the good guys are the good guys and the only people with reason not to trust them are bad guys.

Date: 2012-03-24 02:29 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
"We pour billions of dollar into A.R.G.U.S., so that JUstice Leage has whatit needs."

Even the kind of story, where heroes act like little kids and villains have completely valid reason not to trust them?

Date: 2012-03-22 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] hyperactivator
You see that whole scene with Trevor implies some pretty paranoid beliefs. The first and formost is that the government cannot and should not be trusted.

Date: 2012-03-23 03:37 am (UTC)
jlroberson: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jlroberson
Wow! Col. Steve Trevor of the US Army just threatened Congress. And Congress whimpered and whined and begged him not to hurt them.

Has Geoff Johns ever watched a congressional hearing in his life? I'm thinking not. Too bad, because the Gene Ha art in this was making me finally start liking the book and think Lee was the actual main problem.

He still is, but Johns...I don't think he has the slightest idea how real humans act or talk. Or forgot anyway. Where the hell is the Geoff Johns that wrote ACTION COMICS? Even AQUAMAN has this weird misanthropy, with that ridiculous sexual harasser in the last issue.

It's like an entire aesthetic based on the climax of KINGDOM COME. Remember that? Where basically Superman takes control of the world? Funny how few if any ever point that out about it. Or like that moment in MARVELS when Phil Sheldon calls all of NY ungrateful assholes for lack of the proper respect for super-heroes.

Then earlier in the issue is the insane spectacle of reporters claiming the super-heroes could solve the economy. Which rings equally wrong. Look, I make satire. I get satire. This might be a try at satire. But it's clumsy as fuck and very, very bad. And reflects a vaguely fascist hatred of people that seems strange in a book like JL.

One thing that keeps showing up in Johns' work of late is this callback to Waid or Busiek's worship-superheroes idea, and I do not like it.

But, again: the art here is SO SPIFFY. Any Gene Ha is always welcome.

Date: 2012-03-24 03:37 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
I want to like this book, I really do, because I miss Ha from Top 10. But Johns being all about the JLA stepping on each other's dicks makes me wonder if he's finally gotten around to reading nearly-half-century-old early Avengers stories, and Trevor threatening members of Congress with Superman illegally spying on them--gosh, that can't possibly come back to haunt him ever, can it? Sheesh.


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