Batman and Robin #18

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[icon_uk]

Sorry to be an old fart, but I've been here and done that back in 1988, not sure I see much difference here. Bruce has a lost loved one to angst over, rinse and repeat.

(And I hope there's another letter somewhere, for the FIRST hero who taught him how to be a hero and a person.... you know the one.)

[elf]

Yes, this. Been there, done that. It's even part of this timeline. Which means either Bruce copes better, because he's dealt with it before, or he falls totally apart because it's happening *again.* Neither of those options is good for the storyline.

Maybe this is how they'll bring Tim back as Robin... he can do the whole "Batman needs a Robin" speech after being Red Robin for 3 years, or whatever it's been.

(And yes. I want to see the letter he wrote to Dick. Also. In what way does "I will always be at your side" mean "I will go off on my own to fight the bad guys?")

[littlepunkryo]

I felt the same way. All of this was utterly predictable, I was expecting so much more :/ The Batman issue made me more emotional for some reason, which was not what I was expecting.

[shingi70]

Pretty sure she doesn't exist anymore. :(

[jaybee3]

I think if they had known before the reboot Morrison was going to kill off Damien to end his saga (and he has said it before so I assume they did know) then they shouldn't have included Jason Todd in the reboot. They should erased him they way they did Cassandra and Stephanie. Tim Drake too if it came too that. It should have been just Dick and Damien. But with 4 look-alike Robins, 2 of them dying all within the shortened DCnU timeline (and 1 coming back to life) is ridiculous.

[theflames]

Yeah since this is the second time this has happened...

... I have relatively little sympathy for him, a 13 year old kid died under his watch and he isn't even going to think about handing himself to the authorities to answer for that. Which irks me.

Anyway, he should invest in a Robin that's 18. And this death feels SOOOOO premature. I saw a future for Damian, I thought DC was really going to use him for all his worth.

[espanolbot]

Probably not iconic enough.

ALL ROBINS MUST DIE UNTIL DICK PUTS THE SCALED SPEEDO BACK ON! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! CATWOMAN MUST WEAR PURPLE LATEX AND SMUGGLE WATERMELONS IN HER TOP! TWO-FACE'S FACE MUST BE GREEN! THE PENGUIN MUST HAVE A HELICOPTER UMBRELLA! BLORG!

[darkknightjrk]

"and he isn't even going to think about handing himself to the authorities to answer for that. Which irks me."

He actually does, if the flash-forward we saw in the first issue of this Inc. is any indication:





"And this death feels SOOOOO premature. I saw a future for Damian, I thought DC was really going to use him for all his worth."

That's not necessarily a bad thing. I felt the same about Ultimate Peter Parker, but that turned out working out. It actually made it more effective because he did have his whole life ahead of him, he was starting to become a more "effective" and big-time hero with the help of the Ultimates, but then everything happened and he had no choice but to lay it all on the line for those he loves.

[silverhammerman]

Bruce's angry roar face on that second last page is HI-larious.
I think I'm with the other people saying this just looks predictable and not hugely interesting. It's emotional sure, but not something I really care about seeing handled outside of Batman Inc.

[mrstatham]

The worst part is it makes zero sense. Zero sense. I haven't been following Batman Incorporated entirely because I think the first volume of the book was increasingly hot garbage after how good I thought Batman and Robin was, and the second volume just looks terrible, but..

Presumably, Talia's still out there, here. The city is still under siege, surely, with all the machinations that Leviathan has in place. And yet we see none of that in these books. It's literally out of nowhere, it really is. Leviathan might as well not exist outside of Incorporated, that's how badly DC have managed to butcher what Morrison was doing.

Evil, Revived Damian

[protogarrett]

Damian will be brought back via Lazarus Pit and then turned evil. I am calling it now. I give it three years. Tops.

Re: Evil, Revived Damian

[mrstatham]

Why bother when Talia can just vat-grow another Heretic?

[neurotic_kitten]

I know that as a reader I'm supposed to care about this, but I don't, this whole development feels so tacked on, like they did it because they wanted to create an emotional impact, but have no idea how to find a proper way to make this work in the story.

It doesn't help that I never cared much for Damian. I kinda liked the dynamic he had with Dick, it felt sincere, but then that went to Nowheresville.

[walkingthroughforest]

I don't know what you guys are on...
That was devastating.

[icon_uk]

If this is your first dead Robin (Well THERE'S a weird thing to find yourself typing), or you got emotional impact out of it, then more power to you.

To me this is just Jason all over again, with a slightly unpleasant aftertaste of "This one is worse because he was my actual son"

[oddityangel]

Stop scaring the dog, Bruce.

[icon_uk]

I actually felt slightly worse for Titus than I did for Bruce here (Which doesn't sit right with me, I love animals, but human sympathy should have kicked in more than it did), Titus simply can't understand why his boy hasn't come home, but probably just misses him in the forthright way a dog does.

[flint_marko]

Since the first page was actually a double-page spread, aren't you going over the page limit?

[icon_uk]

Was that a double page spread, I thought it must be the top of a page.

Mod Note

[icon_uk]

If this IS more than the four page limit that s_d impose for all single posts from a new title, please trim it down so it is no more than four pages. Thanks.

Re: Mod Note

[superfangirl1]

Didn't notice the double page while rushing to post images and fix. :)

[lucky_gamble]

Everything from the silent screaming, letter, on-knees crying, etc., is so damn trite, I really feel nothing. It has been done before and to greater effect

Oh god...I've become the Comic Book Guy.

[chrisdv]

I choose to believe that Bruce is upset because he's realised that he's become an absolute joke thanks to the New 52 condensing the deaths of 2 Robins into 5 years & regularly being treated like the Justice League's personal Butt Monkey.

[mommy]

The thing that surprises me most is the Even Number Robin curse has spread to Damian. I honestly thought he'd get the chance to grow up. Sure, removing Steph from continuity should make him an Even Robin, but they de-Robin'd Tim which scoots Damian up to Robin #3 and therefore safe.

[md84]

It's depressing that both of the Robins that died (Steph doesn't count since she did barely survive) did so because their own mothers betrayed them. Jason's mom pulled a gun on him allowing the Joker to beat him with a crowbar and Talia let her monstrous clone son impale Damian on a sword after having her henchmen riddle him with arrows and bullets.

[starwolf_oakley]

In JOKER: LAST LAUGH #6, Dick thinks Tim is dead and says "We weren't there for Tim, like we weren't there for Jason."

The fact Dick and Bruce were RIGHT THERE when Damian died changes this a LOT from Jason's death.

[icon_uk]

In terms of the circumstances of the death, perhaps. In terms of the apparent impact on Bruce (shouting, punching things, becoming obsessed with his mission to the excusion of those around him, working himself to death) not so much, at least based on these scenes.

[sleepymax]

I really hate to sound cynical or whatever but: I always was annoyed at how it felt like we were supposed to feel like Damian was more of Batman's son than any other Robin because he was biologically related to him. I've read people who said things like: "It's more devastating because Damian is Bruce's only real child."

[arysteia]

The fact that "people" say that doesn't mean that a) that's how we were intended to read it, or b) that's how the majority of us read it. I find the very idea repulsive.

If I feel sadder this time round it's because I actually read the story unfolding, after having watched Damian arrive on the scene and grow, whereas I was on comics hiatus for the whole of Jason's tenure and my actualfax reaction ran like this:

Friend: Joker killed Robin.
Me: What? Goddamn it. I loved Dick.
Friend: No, the new one.
Me: Oh, that's okay then.

Which I feel terrible about now, but it really is what I said in 1989 or whenever it was. I was thirteen, we suck.

You're dead right that blood doesn't count more, but if there's an ur-Robin, one Bruce loves best, I really do believe it's Dick, in any case.

[md84]

As awful as Damian's death was, it did illustrate just how much he's changed. The murderous entitled little brat that was first seen holding a sword to his father's throat and trying to kill Tim would never have sacrificed himself protecting someone else. It sucks that he died, but at least he died a hero.

His death also cements Talia's villain status. She had her own son riddled with bullets and arrows and did nothing while his clone brutally murdered him. There's no coming back from that.

[darkknightjrk]

One detail that isn't in this that really shows the development: In the first arc, when Bruce looks at Damian's drawings, they are of death and devastation--now he's sketching the things he sees and the people he loves, like Bruce and Alfred.

[jlroberson]

To be perfectly honest: I always liked Damian. I always thought he was a good character. And the little bastard, at heart, WAS heroic.

And he and Dick worked very well together. In fact, really, Dick made more of an effort with Damian than Bruce ever did. I think Dick certainly knew Damian far better. And they became very good friends--brothers really.

But Bruce?

No.

Bruce was a terrible father. Bruce didn't even, as you see in this issue, know that Damian liked to draw. Bruce treated Damian as a responsibility and a hindrance, not as a son.

Bruce has every reason to feel like a total shit now. I'm sorry, but it really is so.

(And I wonder when Alfred is going to tell Bruce that he not only didn't stop Damian from getting out, he even encouraged and helped him)

Bruce, by the way, better not throw the cow and the cat out.

PS

[jlroberson]

And this issue trumps just about everything done in most Batman comics for the last 5 years. I was impressed. I haven't been paying attention to this book since Morrison left it, but now I feel I was really missing something. Tomasi and Gleason do an excellent job here, making both Snyder and even Morrison look a bit shallow.

[nomore]

Honestly my response to this is just primarily emotional I don't even know how to form an *opinion* of this, let alone meta. Effected by child death just this badly and personally I haven't seen that coming. I feel it just isn't *fair* to do to either Damian *or* the readers.

My last 'reading of' Damian was him being triggering twat to Jason and the *next* issue I know is him being *gone*? That just isn't fair. I don't even feel like reading through the continuity, because I know I'd retroactively just think of 'no matter what he does, he winds up dead, because it was decided so' and I just want to scream at that.

[jlroberson]

AV Club loved it, and rightfully so.
http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-silent-batman-and-robin-18-is-a-dark-knight-ma,93755/