[identity profile] proteus_lives.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Greetings True Believers! Captain America is a character that practically made of perfect moments. Everyone knows that Cap has the secret mutant power of the "Inspirational Speech" Because of it, he rallies armies, Gods follow him into battle, enemies become friends and he teaches whole generations of heroes.

These scans have what I consider the "The Speech" which totally defines Steve Rogers and what he stands for. (What we should all stand for.) It's from Amazing Spider-Man #537, during the Civil War event. Peter has just switched sides and he's screwed up the fight, putting his family in danger and what people are saying about him. So he asks Cap a very important question.

BTW, Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens is the fucking man. To this day.

That is Steve-By-God-Rogers. That's not the Super Soldier Serum talking, that's Steve Rogers. Still gives me the goosebumps.

Date: 2009-06-07 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitty_tc_69.insanejournal.com
...aaand then they kill him off and try to make us buy that Tony was right. Cap surrendered, Spidey sold his soul and his characterization to a lame Satan wannabe, and editorial is still using their bully pulpit to make attacks on the fans who rightfully disagree.

Well I for one plant myself like that tree beside the river of truth and tell Quesada and his cronies and sycophants

"NO. You move."

Date: 2009-06-07 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] adon_ca.insanejournal.com
One almost, in the face of what followed, can imagine that JMS knew what was going to happen over in Cap's title, and maybe even in Civil War, and wanted to give Steve these bits to show people just why he is Captain America, and nobody will ever be able to truly replace him.

And by God, it still seems like the Marvel brain trust misses the point, and he won't be back until they do.

Date: 2009-06-07 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tavella.insanejournal.com
A lot of people complained about JMS during Civil War. Of course, what they were mainly complaining about was that while like the rest of Marvel he showed Tony doing shitty things, unlike the rest of Marvel he didn't wrap it in a sycophantic aura of "he's hard man doing the hard things, it's so haaard being him, you should worship him". To JMS, shitty authoritarian behavior was shitty authoritarian behavior. And I love him for it.

And thus, he was the only person in Marvel to allow Steve to behave according to his longtime characterization, instead of being an inarticulate thug behaving like an idiot.

Date: 2009-06-07 07:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yaseen101.insanejournal.com
That is so goddamn true and funny at the same time.

Date: 2009-06-07 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] requiem2adream.insanejournal.com
*cries just a little bit* Right there with you on the goosebumps front.

Oh Steve. We miss you.

Date: 2009-06-07 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Hmmmm, it IS great, but six pages DOES seem to be a little bit much for a "moment", even for Cap and Spidey.

I'd have said the last panel of scan 4 and all of scan 5 would have summarised it nicely.

Date: 2009-06-07 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
It's all one scene, I think that qualifies as a "moment." A long moment, perhaps, but still a single discrete bit of time. One can easily imagine Pete being like "and that was the moment I fell in love with Cap" and referring to this whole conversation, just to pick an example in-line with the community ethos. ^.^

Date: 2009-06-07 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liarashadowsong.insanejournal.com
That's long for a 'moment'. But I don't mind, personally, because it is so awesome, and I don't want to see it abridged. Steve!!! ^_^ Also, pre-Cap!Steve is teeny and adorable and looks like a blond version of a younger Peter sans glasses, which makes me very happy for some reason that I cannot pinpoint. Also, do I detect a hero-worship crush here? *imagines Peter/MJ/Steve for a moment, and brain breaks*

Date: 2009-06-07 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liarashadowsong.insanejournal.com
*giggle* Good point.

Date: 2009-06-08 04:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tanetris.insanejournal.com
Stupid sexy Cap...

(I say this, but I assure you I embrace the Steve love.)

Date: 2009-06-08 09:53 am (UTC)

Date: 2009-06-08 12:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The one that killed me, the one that absolutely killed me, is when Punisher sees Cap die. Because the Punisher doesn't want to be himself, he wants the world to be a better place - he wants Captain America to win, and to have Cap's death validate every dark and ugly thing he thinks about the world was just heartbreaking.


Date: 2009-06-10 02:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joysweeper.insanejournal.com
This is true.

Date: 2009-06-07 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bariman1987.insanejournal.com
MJ and Steve got along pretty well when the Parkers were living in Avengers Tower. She geeked out when he showed her a picture of him and a famous baseball player (either Babe Ruth or Joe Dimaggio). And during "The Other" when Peter thought he was dying, he tried to hook MJ and Steve up...

Date: 2009-06-07 05:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.insanejournal.com
As I was so angry with Marvel by this time, I had stopped buying Amazing (the one book I'd carried on with for awhile), I'd never seen that.

Thank you. Yeah, that's Cap. Also, that's Peter. Thank you.

Date: 2009-06-07 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schala_kid.insanejournal.com
I love when Peter acts like a fanboy with Cap <3 and I loved their relationship especially when Pete, May and MJ went to live in Avengers tower.

Also another reason I hate about OMD it had that scene with Spidey saying "I bet Captain America doesn't have these problems. ... Then again, he's dead." very fucking classy.

Date: 2009-06-08 06:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.insanejournal.com


... That line is actually in there!?


Date: 2009-06-08 11:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schala_kid.insanejournal.com
Yep, Amazing Spider-Man #551

Date: 2009-06-07 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cmdr_zoom.insanejournal.com
Yes. This.

Date: 2009-06-07 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mykie1234.insanejournal.com
Sir or Madam who posted this... thank you. This is my favourite Steve Rogers moment of all time. I put the end of that Mark Twain quote on my myspace and everything. Thanks.

Date: 2009-06-07 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starwolf_oakley.insanejournal.com
I can understand if the plan for CIVIL WAR was "First have the audience on the side of Cap, then have them realize Iron Man was right." But no one seemed to put the second part into effect until the end of CIVIL WAR #7 and FRONT LINE #11.

The thing about Cap's speech was... there are certain people in this country that believe certain things fervently and with all their hearts... but that doesn't mean they are right. I recently studied Arthur Miller's works, and many of his characters like Willy Loman and Eddie Carbone believe things very purely... but that doesn't mean they are right. To risk getting more political, did Cap and Co. really think that Iron Man and Co. didn't believe in Superhero Registration? Did Cap think it was all a scam by Tony to get rich?

Date: 2009-06-07 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sherkahn.insanejournal.com
Cap understood that Tony and the others believed that they were right and would stand by their convictions, too. He respected it, but hated what it meant, and knew that both ideals would clash.

To quote Thanos (during his talk with the Gardener during Thanos quest)


Date: 2009-06-07 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sherkahn.insanejournal.com
I must apologize.

Looking back, I honestly thought it was Thanos who said it, but it's the Gardner who spoke so eloquently. But Thanos was involved.


It's one of the few rare instances, for among the similarities there are between Thanos (when he's great) and Doom (when Doom is great) is that Thanos knows what he is, he has few delusions about it, and has rare moments when even Thanos wishes he wasn't the bad guy.

Date: 2009-06-08 12:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unknownscribler.insanejournal.com
This. That little speech justifies everything wrong with America -- the homophobia, the misogyny, the racism -- as much as it does the right.

Date: 2009-06-08 02:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tavella.insanejournal.com
True, someone can consistently defend what is wrong; but that's when you look at what they *do*. Which is why it was easy to tell who was wrong in Civil War: supporting people being attacked for the makeup of their skin. Using missiles on kids trying to stop muggings. Hiring murderers to hunt down dissenters. Cloning ex-friends into death machines. Teaming up with people who assaulted friends for refusing to support laws not passed. Imprisoning people in extradimensional gulags that drive people insane.

Captain America: defending said people attacked for the makeup of their skin. Rescuing kids being shot at with missiles. Kicking people out of his team for being murderers. Rescuing people from said gulags. (Also doing stupid stuff like thinking the best way to dissent was to run around tying up criminals, but that's misjudgement rather than evil.)

See? Easy.

Except for Marvel, of course, but then, they do worship their authoritarian neocons.

Date: 2009-08-31 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
although i love twain i have to agree. merely standing by your convictions is not enough to ensure a sane and civil society. its only at the last point where twain mentions truth that i really agree with him.

the true responsibility of a member of any community, whether it is organized as a republic, monarchy, whatever...is to attempt to gain some insight into truth.

truth can be thought of as the correspondence of ideas with objective reality. people may believe something is true without having ever put their beliefs to the full scrutiny of reason.

Date: 2009-06-08 09:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
perhaps. But when you look at American history, I think more often the wrong is what moves eventually.

Date: 2009-06-07 11:07 pm (UTC)
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Default)
From: [personal profile] kingrockwell
Tell us a story, Uncle Steve!
Oh man, I just remembered! I found Amazing Spider-Man #-1 at an LCS recently, it's totally about kid!Peter fantasizing that he's Captain America! Just look at the cover!

Man, I've gotta dig up some Cap moments. Even on my Marvel embargo, Cap is too momentous to ignore.

Date: 2009-06-08 01:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psychop_rex.insanejournal.com
That's pretty cool, all right. The one thing that I would quibble with Twain about is the bit about country - I don't think it matters which sort of country you're in; you should do what you believe is right regardless of the political system under which you live. Sure, America's constitution is specifically founded on the principle, but I think the important point is that you are a traitor to YOURSELF if you compromise your beliefs for the sake of expediency. Screw the government - the point is that you have a duty to yourself and to others to stand up for what you believe is right.
Other than that, spot on. Good on ya, Twain - and well-delivered, Mr. Rogers.

Date: 2009-06-08 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] magus_69.insanejournal.com
This is why I cannot buy Bucky as Captain America. I like Bucky, and I think that Brubaker is doing fantastic stuff with him, but Captain America and Steve Rogers are intertwined. The idealism that is never lost, despite everything that has ever been thrown at him is definitive of who Steve Rogers is, and why he stands as one of the greats.

Date: 2009-06-08 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hybridhelen.insanejournal.com
Not gonna lie, this made me cry.
Thank you for posting it.

Date: 2009-06-08 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lookingforsigns.insanejournal.com
I think I teared up a bit just reading that.

Date: 2009-06-10 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joysweeper.insanejournal.com
I still love this.

No, sir!

Date: 2009-08-31 02:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Wow, couldn't agree less. Aside from the river of truth comment, the logic of the statement precludes no action as unpatriotic. Manson or hell some member of the KKK hold to "truths" that the mass of us all agree is utter trash, but by Captain A_o here, they're being patriotic. What about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How about all men are created equal... These are our American truths, our human truths. Replacing individual freedom with populism masquerading as rebellion is certainly not my ideal. And, if you think the mob is represented by some construct of the comic book, maybe you should look at this endless thread of yes,yes,yes... Maybe you're the mob.


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