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scans_dailyIn the past post I made, I presented a case where the foundation for a possible relationship between Tim Drake and Cass Cain could have been build upon,
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4424927.html
In THIS post, I'll show why and how I think that them becoming a couple just prior to the reboot was a thing. And establish a narrative using what's there to make sense of the Cass Cain Brainwashing Fiasco.
Yeah, it's totally subjective, but I think that there's evidence there that makes sense.
So we established in the previous section that Tim is attracted to Cass, and that they were on friendlier terms just prior to the end of her series. But then this happened.
Deathstroke and the Secret Society of Supervillains dropped Chemo on Cass and Tim's new hometown of Bludhaven. Out of the three heroes based in the city (it was Nightwing's city prior to No Man's Land), Cass was the only one who lost their entire backing cast to the event, with at least some of Dick and Tim's friends in the city managing to survive the blast and following fallout.
It's true that Tim had a rotten time on the way up to Infinite Crisis, what with both Steph and his father dying within days of each other (as well as his BFF Suberboy copping it during the event himself), but people don't seem to realise that Cass also suffered a huge amount of loss them too...
...And unlike Tim, she wasn't invited on the "boys only" trip around the world that Bruce had with Tim and Dick where they travelled to the various places where Bruce did his training (during 52). Maybe if they'd invited Cass along she wouldn't have been kidnapped and brainwashed by Slade... which they could easily have done (in-verse) considering Beechen later retconned in that Alfred got Cass into some ASL classes and the like to trying and help her learn to read.
The fundemental amount of loss that Cass suffered I think could be used to explain why she developed a fixation with Tim after she was drugged by Deathstroke. Although out of 'verse it was a rather transparent attempt to give Tim his own "Talia al Ghul" figure in the form of Cass, complete with offensive Dragon Lady stereotypes, within the wider scope of the story it could be seen as Cass hooking onto Tim because he's the only link to her old life she has who she thinks would UNDERSTAND why she was doing what she was.
It's interesting, if kind of unintentionally so, that Cass refers to Tim being brainwashed into being Batman's puppet during the Wanted storyline when in actuality it was she who was being controlled. In a meta way, could this be read (post-reboot) as her trying to subconsciously clue Tim in on what was going on with her at the time, but him being too dense to figure out she was talking about HERSELF.
This explanation does lead into the awkward question of how much autonomy Cass had while she was being controlled by Slade and her father, as some of the actions she undertook don't really seem to fit within a larger scheme by the people controlling her. Such as sniping a CEO that was involved in supplying gangs with a dangerous mutagenetic drug (or something) that Tim couldn't take to court, for example. Though she/her dad might have been involved in buying the drugs as well... the story was kind of stupid.
Skipping forward to the Titans East storyline which saw the end of Geoff Johns' time with the Teen Titans and the start of Adam Beechen's, we had the reveal that Deathstroke was actually the one behind Cass' current state of evil. It's also the time where Cass' drugged out behaviour took a more overt turn for the sexual, rather than her previous "Together you can I can rule the galaxy!" type behaviour in Tim's series.
Not sure whether to blame Beechen or Johns for this, as well as the squiffy thing where either the mindcontrol drug was making Cass act out an attraction that may have developed naturally towards Tim, OR somehow Slade was involved in her attempts to recruit/sexually assault and brainwash Tim as well. Both are icky, but the first option makes a degree more sense from an overall story standpoint.
Anyway, Cass is cured, albeit in a way that makes her look like a bumbling idiot.
Aw, screw you too Dick! A close colleague has been revealled to have been brainwashed for nearly a year? Punch her unconscious so we don't have to deal with her stumbling about after regarding her mind for the first time in months! OH, and despite this, SLADE ESCAPES. MAKING DICK PUNCHING HIS MENTALLY UNWELL FRIEND IN THE FACE COMPLETELY NECESSARY! GARRGH, THIS DAMN STORY IS SO...
Now an important thing that I want to point out before I continue is that I don't condone the idea that the drug was entirely responsible for Cass' interest in Tim, because the entire mindcontrolled subplot is really kind of gross. From a character and story standpoint I'd like to believe that the drug was just making whatever feelings that may have developed towards Tim during the Missing Year come to the fore, but then that raises questions regarding her murders.
Like if the mindcontrol drug made her less inhibited in displaying her affections (ew), does that make her willingness to kill part of the same less inhibited package. Which, again, is problematic for SO MANY REASONS.
Now that that unpleasantness was behind them, a firmer, less triggery ground for an actual relationship between the two could have been said to have been established, again through a writing fumble like with the One Year Later fiasco. But first, here's Adam Beechen's desperate attempt to explain what the hell was going on with Cass in her appearances in Robin, Teen Titans and Supergirl.
He'd later go on to say that all of that was planned for Cass from the start... when in interviews he'd made during Robin: Wanted he'd said that Cass becoming evil was a natural progression of her character. Oops.
There also became a marked change with Cass after the mindcontrol incident, where she was protrayed as being more closed off and self loathing, effectively becoming what people thought Cass was like back in her own title. This was shown in Chuch Dixon's Outsiders series where Cass apparently was okay with walking around naked in front of strangers (something she'd been at least a little self conscious about back in her own book), and in Adam Beechen's miniseries where she apparently didn't feel she had the right to be allowed back into Wayne Manor due to the things she had been forced to do.
Alfred and Bruce recognising that Cass was mentally in a very bad place is what leads Bruce to officially start procedings to adopt Cass, in order to give her a sense of stablity... only for RIP to happen, taking THAT from her too.
For a long time no one was really sure what to do with Cass, sure she was in Batman and the Outsiders (until Dan Didio personally decided to take over the book and kick her off the team after Chuck Dixon quit/was sacked), but for someone with such close ties to Steph, Bruce, Babs etc. Cass just seemed to disappear from the other Bat Books.
It was then established through a combination of Adam Beechen's mediocre Cass Cain mini series, Steph's Batgirl series and Tim's Red Robin book that it was actually TIM, not Babs, not Bruce, who'd gone out of his way to find Cass and get her help after her ordeal. It was largely off-panel, but the fact that someone was willing, in-verse, to deal with her says a lot, particularly since during this period Dick Grayson suddenly became a bullying, judgemental ass in regards to Cass for some reason. Probably all the times she punched him back in her own book.
Dick Grayson was also the guy who gave Rose Wilson, a person who'd undergone the same mindcontrol as Cass a free pass, FYI.
Oddly, post-Steph's resurrection it seems that Cass' closest friendship now appeared to be with Tim, as she was never shown on panel to be hanging out with Barbara and Steph anymore. It was Tim who was her official contact to the folks back in Gotham after she moved to Hong Kong, and it was him who recruited her in Batman Incorporated in the Black Bat persona.
Similarly, in Red Robin they established that when Cass was having a problem it was now Tim that she called in for help, in addition being the one who'd come to his rescue if he actually needed his help.
The MetaNarrative
So, by this point we began with Tim being drawn to Cass physically back during her own series, then leaning upon each other for emotional support following the death of their mutual friend Steph. They both lost many people close to them during Infinite Crisis, but unlike Tim Cass didn't have anyone to turn to, leading her open to being picked off by Deathstroke.
In her addled state she ends up drawn to Tim due to a blend of wanting the mutual emotional support they had before IC, a feeling that he should understand the loss she's suffered, and a possible subconscious desire that he, a person who is canonically meant to be a potentially greater detective than Batman, should be able to get her out of the situation she's found herself trapped in.
After she's freed from her mindcontrol, Tim is the only member of the Bat Family to actually be shown in getting her help after her ordeal, but the experiences she underwent cause her to withdraw from her old friends like Barbara Gordon (a situation helped by Barbara's increasingly hectic schedule with the Birds of Prey and Misfit). Following Bruce's "death" just prior to her being officially adopted by him, the loss of yet another person who is incredibly important to her proves to be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back, leading Cass to quit being Batgirl despite what the symbol previously was shown to mean to her.
This leads to her moving to Hong Kong, where Tim is, again, the only one who bothered to maintain contact with her. Presumably having learned his lesson regarding what happened the last time Cass went off to grieve and people forgot she existed. During this time they become closer, working together more as a unit, until we finally get to their final appearance in Gates of Gotham.
By the time Gates of Gotham rolled around, in what turned out to be their final appearance together, Cass' relationship with Tim was the most cordial out of assembled members of the Bat Family (even though Dick had warmed up to her again by this time). Again, the two of them were shown to be working together occasionally on investigations, and although it could be read as the two of them becoming just very good friends, Tim having been the one to help Cass when she was at her lowest point... this page can be kind of read as it being a bit more than that.
Now, as I said, a lot of this is subjective and at least some of it is fanon intended to make sense of some of DC editorial and writing decisions, but personally I think it works better than what was outright stated at the time.
The pair become friends, respect each other, help each other through bad situations both physical and emotional, compliment each other well and eventually, maybe, end up together as a couple.
I'm not entirely alone in seeing this, as even in Damion Scott's issue of Solo he mentioned how he felt that Tim and Cass had good chemistry, even back before OYL.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4424927.html
In THIS post, I'll show why and how I think that them becoming a couple just prior to the reboot was a thing. And establish a narrative using what's there to make sense of the Cass Cain Brainwashing Fiasco.
Yeah, it's totally subjective, but I think that there's evidence there that makes sense.
So we established in the previous section that Tim is attracted to Cass, and that they were on friendlier terms just prior to the end of her series. But then this happened.
Deathstroke and the Secret Society of Supervillains dropped Chemo on Cass and Tim's new hometown of Bludhaven. Out of the three heroes based in the city (it was Nightwing's city prior to No Man's Land), Cass was the only one who lost their entire backing cast to the event, with at least some of Dick and Tim's friends in the city managing to survive the blast and following fallout.
It's true that Tim had a rotten time on the way up to Infinite Crisis, what with both Steph and his father dying within days of each other (as well as his BFF Suberboy copping it during the event himself), but people don't seem to realise that Cass also suffered a huge amount of loss them too...
...And unlike Tim, she wasn't invited on the "boys only" trip around the world that Bruce had with Tim and Dick where they travelled to the various places where Bruce did his training (during 52). Maybe if they'd invited Cass along she wouldn't have been kidnapped and brainwashed by Slade... which they could easily have done (in-verse) considering Beechen later retconned in that Alfred got Cass into some ASL classes and the like to trying and help her learn to read.
The fundemental amount of loss that Cass suffered I think could be used to explain why she developed a fixation with Tim after she was drugged by Deathstroke. Although out of 'verse it was a rather transparent attempt to give Tim his own "Talia al Ghul" figure in the form of Cass, complete with offensive Dragon Lady stereotypes, within the wider scope of the story it could be seen as Cass hooking onto Tim because he's the only link to her old life she has who she thinks would UNDERSTAND why she was doing what she was.
It's interesting, if kind of unintentionally so, that Cass refers to Tim being brainwashed into being Batman's puppet during the Wanted storyline when in actuality it was she who was being controlled. In a meta way, could this be read (post-reboot) as her trying to subconsciously clue Tim in on what was going on with her at the time, but him being too dense to figure out she was talking about HERSELF.
This explanation does lead into the awkward question of how much autonomy Cass had while she was being controlled by Slade and her father, as some of the actions she undertook don't really seem to fit within a larger scheme by the people controlling her. Such as sniping a CEO that was involved in supplying gangs with a dangerous mutagenetic drug (or something) that Tim couldn't take to court, for example. Though she/her dad might have been involved in buying the drugs as well... the story was kind of stupid.
Skipping forward to the Titans East storyline which saw the end of Geoff Johns' time with the Teen Titans and the start of Adam Beechen's, we had the reveal that Deathstroke was actually the one behind Cass' current state of evil. It's also the time where Cass' drugged out behaviour took a more overt turn for the sexual, rather than her previous "Together you can I can rule the galaxy!" type behaviour in Tim's series.
Not sure whether to blame Beechen or Johns for this, as well as the squiffy thing where either the mindcontrol drug was making Cass act out an attraction that may have developed naturally towards Tim, OR somehow Slade was involved in her attempts to recruit/sexually assault and brainwash Tim as well. Both are icky, but the first option makes a degree more sense from an overall story standpoint.
Anyway, Cass is cured, albeit in a way that makes her look like a bumbling idiot.
Aw, screw you too Dick! A close colleague has been revealled to have been brainwashed for nearly a year? Punch her unconscious so we don't have to deal with her stumbling about after regarding her mind for the first time in months! OH, and despite this, SLADE ESCAPES. MAKING DICK PUNCHING HIS MENTALLY UNWELL FRIEND IN THE FACE COMPLETELY NECESSARY! GARRGH, THIS DAMN STORY IS SO...
Now an important thing that I want to point out before I continue is that I don't condone the idea that the drug was entirely responsible for Cass' interest in Tim, because the entire mindcontrolled subplot is really kind of gross. From a character and story standpoint I'd like to believe that the drug was just making whatever feelings that may have developed towards Tim during the Missing Year come to the fore, but then that raises questions regarding her murders.
Like if the mindcontrol drug made her less inhibited in displaying her affections (ew), does that make her willingness to kill part of the same less inhibited package. Which, again, is problematic for SO MANY REASONS.
Now that that unpleasantness was behind them, a firmer, less triggery ground for an actual relationship between the two could have been said to have been established, again through a writing fumble like with the One Year Later fiasco. But first, here's Adam Beechen's desperate attempt to explain what the hell was going on with Cass in her appearances in Robin, Teen Titans and Supergirl.
He'd later go on to say that all of that was planned for Cass from the start... when in interviews he'd made during Robin: Wanted he'd said that Cass becoming evil was a natural progression of her character. Oops.
There also became a marked change with Cass after the mindcontrol incident, where she was protrayed as being more closed off and self loathing, effectively becoming what people thought Cass was like back in her own title. This was shown in Chuch Dixon's Outsiders series where Cass apparently was okay with walking around naked in front of strangers (something she'd been at least a little self conscious about back in her own book), and in Adam Beechen's miniseries where she apparently didn't feel she had the right to be allowed back into Wayne Manor due to the things she had been forced to do.
Alfred and Bruce recognising that Cass was mentally in a very bad place is what leads Bruce to officially start procedings to adopt Cass, in order to give her a sense of stablity... only for RIP to happen, taking THAT from her too.
For a long time no one was really sure what to do with Cass, sure she was in Batman and the Outsiders (until Dan Didio personally decided to take over the book and kick her off the team after Chuck Dixon quit/was sacked), but for someone with such close ties to Steph, Bruce, Babs etc. Cass just seemed to disappear from the other Bat Books.
It was then established through a combination of Adam Beechen's mediocre Cass Cain mini series, Steph's Batgirl series and Tim's Red Robin book that it was actually TIM, not Babs, not Bruce, who'd gone out of his way to find Cass and get her help after her ordeal. It was largely off-panel, but the fact that someone was willing, in-verse, to deal with her says a lot, particularly since during this period Dick Grayson suddenly became a bullying, judgemental ass in regards to Cass for some reason. Probably all the times she punched him back in her own book.
Dick Grayson was also the guy who gave Rose Wilson, a person who'd undergone the same mindcontrol as Cass a free pass, FYI.
Oddly, post-Steph's resurrection it seems that Cass' closest friendship now appeared to be with Tim, as she was never shown on panel to be hanging out with Barbara and Steph anymore. It was Tim who was her official contact to the folks back in Gotham after she moved to Hong Kong, and it was him who recruited her in Batman Incorporated in the Black Bat persona.
Similarly, in Red Robin they established that when Cass was having a problem it was now Tim that she called in for help, in addition being the one who'd come to his rescue if he actually needed his help.
The MetaNarrative
So, by this point we began with Tim being drawn to Cass physically back during her own series, then leaning upon each other for emotional support following the death of their mutual friend Steph. They both lost many people close to them during Infinite Crisis, but unlike Tim Cass didn't have anyone to turn to, leading her open to being picked off by Deathstroke.
In her addled state she ends up drawn to Tim due to a blend of wanting the mutual emotional support they had before IC, a feeling that he should understand the loss she's suffered, and a possible subconscious desire that he, a person who is canonically meant to be a potentially greater detective than Batman, should be able to get her out of the situation she's found herself trapped in.
After she's freed from her mindcontrol, Tim is the only member of the Bat Family to actually be shown in getting her help after her ordeal, but the experiences she underwent cause her to withdraw from her old friends like Barbara Gordon (a situation helped by Barbara's increasingly hectic schedule with the Birds of Prey and Misfit). Following Bruce's "death" just prior to her being officially adopted by him, the loss of yet another person who is incredibly important to her proves to be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back, leading Cass to quit being Batgirl despite what the symbol previously was shown to mean to her.
This leads to her moving to Hong Kong, where Tim is, again, the only one who bothered to maintain contact with her. Presumably having learned his lesson regarding what happened the last time Cass went off to grieve and people forgot she existed. During this time they become closer, working together more as a unit, until we finally get to their final appearance in Gates of Gotham.
By the time Gates of Gotham rolled around, in what turned out to be their final appearance together, Cass' relationship with Tim was the most cordial out of assembled members of the Bat Family (even though Dick had warmed up to her again by this time). Again, the two of them were shown to be working together occasionally on investigations, and although it could be read as the two of them becoming just very good friends, Tim having been the one to help Cass when she was at her lowest point... this page can be kind of read as it being a bit more than that.
Now, as I said, a lot of this is subjective and at least some of it is fanon intended to make sense of some of DC editorial and writing decisions, but personally I think it works better than what was outright stated at the time.
The pair become friends, respect each other, help each other through bad situations both physical and emotional, compliment each other well and eventually, maybe, end up together as a couple.
I'm not entirely alone in seeing this, as even in Damion Scott's issue of Solo he mentioned how he felt that Tim and Cass had good chemistry, even back before OYL.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-18 02:10 pm (UTC)I always thought they'd be a good couple and partnership.
Damn you DC for removing her.
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Date: 2013-08-18 07:59 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-08-18 09:12 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-08-19 10:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 10:25 pm (UTC)It is a touch strange that they went twenty years without Tim Drake ever having sex, and in the new 52 they were only a year or so in when they had him have sex with two of his female teammates within several hours of each other.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-20 06:44 am (UTC)Because if comicbook genetics have taught me anything, any offspring of the two of them would have all the strengths of their parents (see: Cass herself). Since Tim has greater detective skills than Batman, and Cassandra better hand-to-hand, their offspring would be a better Batman than Batman.
The DC universe could not take the potential of such awesomeness and thus rebooted before the relationship progressed that far. The lack of Cass is a failsafe to make sure that never happens again.
You're welcome, DC. I'll expect my No-prize in the mail.
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Date: 2013-08-20 12:16 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-08-20 03:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 08:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-18 09:14 pm (UTC)Could have ended up in Vladivostock or Glasgow and she wouldn't have cared much.
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Date: 2013-08-19 08:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 10:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-20 03:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 12:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 05:28 am (UTC)If she could learn to read and speak Navajo (and not just Navajo, but the WWII Codetalk cypher developed from the Navajo language), then a little Mandarin and Cantonese should be a breeze.
Too bad DC never explained her newfound language skills this way.
Also, Tim/Cass/Steph OT3!
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Date: 2013-08-22 12:29 pm (UTC)She gets by on reading people. If Batman needs someone strong in an area and doesn't have a local, Cassandra is a nice pinch-hitter.
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Date: 2013-08-19 12:59 am (UTC)And I don't really like Tim trying to give Cass back the Batgirl mantle. That's a pretty shitty thing to do.
no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 01:25 am (UTC)not necessarily literally "be Batgirl" as much as a "I want you back with us" kinda thing. Then again, it's been a while since I read up on that late era of pre-New52 DCU.
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Date: 2013-08-22 12:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 05:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 03:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 03:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-19 10:42 am (UTC)Against this Ship
Date: 2014-02-04 11:52 pm (UTC)