Batgirl #26

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[crinos]

Didn't Jim do the same thing with Batman a few years ago? Where Batman tried to reveal his identity and Jim told him he didn't want to know and if he did he could find out on his own?

[khaosworks]

Yes, during No Man's Land, in Legends of the Dark Night #125.

[spidermanwashere]

Ya, I'm pretty sure this is what it's referencing. At least that was my first thought.

[spidermanwashere]

[shadowpsykie]

heh everytime i see this i'm like "Oh cap :D"

[mrstatham]

Didn't the guy Gordon shot only actually end up getting shot because Barbara intervened? Looking back at Batgirl #23, it sure fucking looks that way.

That aside, that is THE most stupid counter to something; "If you REALLY believe I didn't do enough - shoot me because you did it to that other guy in entirely different circumstances where it REALLY looks like the guy only got shot because I intervened." Really, Barbara? I know you've actually taken a PhD in Fucking Stupid Perspectives and Self Pitying 101 in this universe, but really?

[kenn_el]

The Gordon family really needs to have a holiday special of their own.

[nate_abril96]

Is it me, or do you think that the way Gordon looks at the picture of Barbara, after she leaves, and he says,"Dammit," means he knows that in truth Barbara is actually Batgirl?

[kurenai_tenka]

It'd be beyond ridiculous if he was that close to her with only a tiny scrap of fabric covering her face and he didn't... course Barbara believing that he doesn't is ridiculous too. Oh well, comic logic.

[rdfox]

You know, I always liked the BTAS take on this, what Paul Dini calls "the REAL big reveal" at the end of Over the Edge, where Jim says (without actually *saying* it) that he knows, but he can't admit that he knows because of his position, so Babs had better not actually come out and tell him, because he needs his plausible deniability.

I've always been of the attitude that Jim Gordon is a good enough cop that, even with attempts to disguise voices and such, he recognized his friend and his daughter and his friend's foster kid, but he knew that they weren't doing any harm, so he actively avoided attempting to find proof of their identities just to have that plausible deniability when, eventually, it inevitably comes out. "Did I know Bruce was Batman? Well, I had my suspicions, of course--I knew Bruce well enough that the jaw looked familiar, and he could only do so much to disguise his voice. But I never had any proof, and I wasn't going to go on a fishing expedition to try and find it when I had a hell of a lot more pressing issues to deal with. Which do you think the police commissioner should concentrate more on, the mildly unbalanced guy in a bat costume who breaks up muggings and rapes, and leaves the badly beaten perps tied up for us to arrest, or the psychopath in clown makeup plotting to release nerve gas in the ventilation system of the Gotham Subway? I already had enough on my plate with the actual *dangerous* criminals and trying to clean up the department; I didn't see any reason to put much effort into identifying the vigilantes who were, frankly, a big help."

[lego_joker]

Then again... the comics seem to go back and forth on how familiar Gordon is with adult Bruce. In the olden-day comics, they seemed to be fairly close friends (old boys network and all that, plus in those days the Commish seemed to be more of a politico, like real-life commissioners). In modern-day comics, I think that Gordon is enough of a man of action (in "Gordon's Law", Sarah even chides him that he's not supposed to wear cuffs or go on cases) that he'd avoid Bruce Wayne's social circles unless absolutely necessary.

[psylynce]

Which is how I feel about the big deal they made about Arrow's new mask. Not really any different from the grease paint guys.

[shadowpsykie]

eh it hides alittle more of his features. it's not like when Tim and dick messed up thier hair in the cartoon to add that little "something" to throw people off.

they also opperate mostly at night.

but yeah, part of the whole green arrow thing is that his mask is riduculous conscidering it does nothign to hide his goatee and blone hair.

though that said, i like his new mask.

[psylynce]

Oh, I like it too, it just came out of nowhere for me. I really liked Huntress' mask too. I have been loving this season over all. There is never a dull moment! But, if a girl can have a Christmas wish it would be to see Canary and Helena team up.

[big_daddy_d]

So we're doing the "does he know" dance all over again?....*sigh* It's as tiring as going through "Lois trying to find out who Superman is" thing over and over by this point.

[shadowpsykie]

well the thing is, it's more that he DOES know, but he doens't KNOW.

he it's like what he said above in both comics. he doens't know because he doesn't want to know. he's a good detective, hell i bet he can give batman a run for his money. but he doens't want to know.

[zechs80]

But we already know don't we? Didn't Jim know Barbara was Batgirl in Birds of Prey?

[lbd_nytetrayn]

That's what I was wondering.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah he did, but again, he Didn't.... he knew she was batgirl, but never looked into it. it seems like it's the same here. I mean batgirl is out of comission after she is shot. and comes back once she is able to walk again.

he's been face to face before with her on more than one ocassion. but he has chosen not to pursue it either way. for what ever personal, private and ethical reasons he has

[an_idol_mind]

He either doesn't know or he's a terrible father. Take your pick.

[rdfox]

...or he recognizes that he's in a position where, if he evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Babs is Batgirl, he'll have to bring her in for the crimes she commits in her vigilante activities, AND that his little girl is all grown up and, legally, old enough to make her own decisions, so he doesn't have the right to forbid her from doing things any more.

Which, to me, sounds more like a good father--one who's willing to let his baby go because she's in her 20s, and who is deliberately avoiding any information that would force him to arrest her.

[an_idol_mind]

In which case, he could at least stop pointing a loaded gun at his daughter.

[psylynce]

That is a good point.

[shadowpsykie]

except that he has been through a trauma and is having a difficult time processing it.

[benuben]

Except that sure as fuck doesn't excuse it.

[shadowpsykie]

never said it excuses it. but it explains it. what people do after a traumatic instances varies, sometimes they crumble, sometimes they do questionable things, sometimes they strike out, sometimes they seek comfort.

reason does not equal excuse, nor does it make something excuseable. What it does do is explain.

[benuben]

Nobody was saying he doesn't have a reason just that it makes him a shitty dad. It does.

[shadowpsykie]

i don't agree. but to each his own.

[benuben]

Look, I get that sometimes people do and say terrible things and that it doesn't make them bad people. In our family, we say horrible shit to each other all the time. And we mean it. But if you really do someting like this, then you failed as a parent, I'm sorry. If you have very human and understandable reasons to act that way fine. You are not a bad person for it. But that doesn't mean you're not a bad parent.

[jlbarnett]

personally I think Gotham should have vigilante activities legal

[sadoeuphemist]

If you think your child is doing something illegal, and you have a confrontation with them where they eventually reach out to you, trying to confess, and your response is to shut down the conversation and refuse to acknowledge what they're saying and tell them to go away, I think that falls under the metric of "terrible father."

[shadowpsykie]

i get your point. but Gordon has gone through a pretty big trauma that he has yet to fully deal with yet. yeah he was harsh, and yeah his daughter is hurting too. but he can't deal with her before he deals with himself or else they will both go down.

[chrisdv]

Wait, did Gordon just admit that he knew what his son was doing & did nothing to arrest him?

[kamino_neko]

He was in no position to arrest James. By the time evidence of what he'd done came to light, Gordon was only able to arrive in time to see Babs put him through the railing.

He knew that James was a psychopath, but without evidence that he'd actually committed a crime, he couldn't arrest him, and when he did have the evidence, the kid had pulled the trigger on his apparent suicide by cape.

He did, however, in his pursuit of Batgirl, his interactions with Batman, and with Barbara, act as though it wasn't a vigilante going too far in the heat of the moment (valid, but arguable, point), but a calculated, coldblooded act.

[mrstatham]

That is the thing that riles me the most about this, that Simone just seems to have twisted things deliberately for drama rather than actually making sense; Like Gordon deliberately blocking his wife from making a statement on the matter, as I recall, from one of the previous scans. It makes no sense whatsoever unless you had the rational that Jim was trying to avoid his entirely family being pulled down by his son's mess - which.. Ain't gonna happen anyway, since Black Mirror is still mostly canon based on the fact James Jr was in Arkham in Batman #1.

Gordon knows his son is a killer, knows that Jr was trying to kill his own mother, but seemingly ignored that like Barbara was the cold-blooded killer of the family. It makes absolutely no sense unless you worked in a kind of idea like he's worried that Barbara would go down the same path as James Jr - but then you'd actually have to LAY that hint in there and have it clear that he knows who she is.

But then this book is, let's be honest, entirely focused on how miserable it can make Barbara.

[thespis]

Exactly! The whole thing just feels deeply contrived.

[silverhammerman]

It still makes zero sense that James Jr is on the Suicide Squad. He has no applicable skills and there's no precedent for him to be smart enough to be just based on sheer intellect, he's just some crazy bastard.

The whole secret identity drama here, beyond just being derivative in a bad way of the Batman/Gordon scene from No Man's Land, is just ridiculous. I'm reminded of Millar/Morrison's Aztek, where someone who actually knows the main character recognizes him almost immediately when they see him in costume, and the getup is really more for protecting him from the public at large. That's always struck me as a pretty good way to handle it.

[mrstatham]

With Black Mirror presumably still canon, though, I suppose that provides some rationale for having him on the Squad, given he was able to pull off a pretty big plot. Plus, Jr is deceptive; Gordon's a smart guy but even he was uncertain as to whether his son was actually doing anything until Black Mirror began to draw to a close. For all we know, he could've sold his membership on the Squad to Waller on grounds that he can't remotely follow through on, but they believe it.

As for the drama? It's Batgirl. This book can't go a month without another dose of hand-wringing drama to dump on the protagonist. I like to imagine whatever's after Gothtopia will involve Gordon getting shot, Batgirl somehow being involved and managing to blame herself, and then carrying on normally. This book's approach to any kind of emotional trauma is terrible. I know it's a superhero book, but.. Seriously.

[thespis]

I liked this scene better when Greg Rucka wrote it in No Man's Land.

(I know it's almost certainly an intentional homage, I just... enh. I'm still not impressed with this book.)