FF #16

[flint_marko]

Later the Living Tribunal shows up to punish Doom for hurting the Watcher.

Comments

[q99]

Nice story.

So, the Tribunal's back? I thought he was killed. Just beat up? We ever find out what did it?

[flint_marko]

Or this story takes place before he died.

[obsidianwolf]

Either this happened before Hickman's mess or we are already seeing the inevitable retcon of it just being the Tribunal playing dead just like the time he played weaker than the Beyonder for the Beyonder's eventual future growth as Kosmos.

[cainofdreaming]

Given the characterization I'd say this happens in some alternate multiverse. Or it's the Stranger playing dress-up again.

[silverzeo]

And does one of their faces is that of She-Hulk?

[captainbellman]

No no no, that was his cousin, "The Dying Tribunal". He's a real embarrassment to the family, and Ma Tribunal doesn't keep his pictures in the photo album any more.

[coldfury]

Maybe it's just me, but unmasking Doom seems to be breaking an unwritten rule. Or maybe I'm missing context... did Doom yet again get omnipotent powers and instantly heal his face once more?

[flint_marko]

He used the Cosmic Power Siphon to steal Annihilus and Kid Immortus's powers.

[chrisdv]

So, what? Dr Doom now has Mass Effect 2 face?

[drtechnobabel]

I wonder if that means his scars will glow bright orange now. If so, this may be less of a punishment and more of a badass intimidation tactic.

[chrisdv]

With an all-encompassing power comes an all-encompassing responsibility

Well, I think we can all be glad that Spider-Man wasn't there to hear that.

Uncle Ben

[7dialsmystery]

Uncle Ben isn't really dead. He's the Living Tribunal. He just hangs out in Elysium between jobs.

[drtechnobabel]

Does Scott have the same power as Doom right now? Because I doubt he can rip off power armor that easily otherwise. This was an epic beat-down though, so I might overlook it anyway.

So Doom is like Thanos now in that he has an unconscious desire to lose (or at least be scarred)? Considering that most of the things Scott said here are more or less true about Doom, I can dig it.

[kevinroc]

No. Scott came to a realization about Pym Particles and granted himself super strength without size changing.

(We also don't have the pages where every attempt Doom makes to get out of this situation were shot down by the Future Foundation's plans. Or when Scott made Doom think he killed Val Richards in the same way he actually killed Cassie Lang.)

The issue was basically Scott Lang giving Doom a "reason you suck speech" and "no holds barred beatdown."

[razsolo]

It LOOKS cool, but I can't really get past Scott dismantling Doom's armour by hand or the Living Tribunal really even caring or noticing about an attack on a Watcher when he's generally more concerned with the fate of entire realities...

[razsolo]

Oops scratch the above comments re:Doom/Scott fight, makes more sense after kevinroc's post! Thanks!

[jlbarnett]

I'm surprised anyone was allowed to write this, because it's something that's going to be forgotten so quickly it's amazing.

But the Watcher's are no gods. In fact the reason they watch instead of act is because they did act for a lesser species and they wiped themselves out

[kevinroc]

The only way to look at this fight is as retribution for Children's Crusade. Because that's what it is. Scott Lang beating the ever loving **** out of Doom for killing his daughter. The way Marvel handled the fallout of CC was genuinely pretty awful (mostly by ignoring it for a year and then finally bringing it into the forefront in FF. The Avengers basically ignored Doom killing their unofficial niece. The Young Avengers mostly dodged the subject of losing their friend. And Scott Lang spent the entire FF series wallowing in "MY DAUGHTER IS DEAD!")

Of course then the end of the comic teases Cassie Lang coming back. Because COMICS!

(Actually because she's probably going to be in the Ant-Man movie.)

[donnblake]

Meh, maybe it's just me, but I *prefer* my villains with nuance, depth, and their own twisted honor. I certainly understand Scott not sharing that point, but this comes off more as an attack on writers who try to portray Doom as anything other than a complete monster, and I've never found that latter all that interesting.

[drtechnobabel]

I think Scott's point here is that Doom does have those things, but that they aren't actually a part of who he is. Rather, they act more like his mask in that they hide the fact that he's an egoist who's primary motivation is to prove himself smarter and generally better than Reed, and that any noble traits he has are a direct result of making himself look like the better man (which, ironically enough, gives him some weird level of depth in my opinion).

Remember, this is a guy who saved a baby and then named it after his lost love just to rub it in Reed's face that he failed and Doom succeeded. This is a man who, according to some sources, first inflicted his massive facial scars when he put red-hot iron on his face because he couldn't wait to hide a very tiny scar he got in the initial lab accident. This is a man who stiffed Luke Cage for $100 because he thought it was beneath him to pay someone he considered a street rat, and only paid up when Cage followed him home, burst into his castle (during a Latverian civil war, no less), and beat him senseless. This is a man who actually managed to conquer the world at one point, actually managed to make it better place, then gave it up because he got BORED. These aren't the actions of a noble demon or an honorable person, but of a vain and petty man who desperately wants to be seen as the former two.

TL;DR: Doom is, in the words of Dr. Horrible, like a pie: he's got a layer of vain egoist on top, but deep down he's a noble ruler who believes that the world would be better under his guidance, and is willing to take power by any means necessary. But then even deeper down, he's still a vain egoist.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

All things considered, I'm reminded of Homer after Ned dressed down the entire town: "Wow, I got off easy. =) "

[thanekos]

" This Tribunal is concluded. Know that if Jim Lee ever draws you unmasked.. there will NOT be too many lines on your face. "

[goggle_kid]

Lang gave Doom the beatdown that Richards should have given him years ago...

Bravo, Mr. Lang.

[freezer]

NGL: I would read a mini-series (possibly a maxi-series) featuring nothing but Doom catching epic beatdowns.

[big_daddy_d]

Holy shit. Turning Doom into a Dorian Grey...wow it..fits. In fact it's downright perfect.

[espanolbot]

Hm, I wonder if a future writer will add that if Doom was capable of being genuinely nice then the comparitive disfigurement would disappear, but due to his incapablity to admit he's wrong or do something good without some level of egotism, he's pretty much constantly moving one step forward, five steps back.

[icon_uk]

I doubt it, the LT isn't interested in trying to redeem Doom, it's punishing him in perpetuity (For a comic book level of perpetuity).

[philippos42]

Oh, Byrne's gonna have a fit!

[kevinroc]

Byrne co-created Scott Lang.

[icon_uk]

That's an interesting punishment from LT there, though since he'll have the mask on as always it'll be hard to tell how it impacts on him.

[shadowpsykie]

likely it will be emotional. he always liked being pretty, knowing that the scars that will appear on his face are his OWN doing will leave no one to blame but himself.

[md84]

There's something oddly poignant about seeing Doom so beaten down and humbled in the last panels. Without his armor -- physical and emotional -- he's just a man, and a rather pathetic one at that. Just look at the way he immediately puts on his mask in the last panel, like a child grasping a security blanket.

[flash_fan]

Wow, I wish Reed would call Doom out on his shit more often like this. It was awesome.

[shadowpsykie]

huh... some one has read Wilde....

[shadowpsykie]

huh,,,, has scott always been so smart?