Wolverine #13

[arbre_rieur]

"He's one of these super heroes who has actually had a character journey over his many decades of existence, and it's one that makes sense. Without his memories, he acted like a bit of a teenager. Now he knows who he is, and he's grown into this mature, responsible, tough guy." -- Paul Cornell

"Season 1" of Paul Cornell and Alan Davis's Wolverine run concludes...

After striking from behind the scenes and via intermediaries for the past few issues, the new-and-improved Sabretooth finally confronts Wolverine in person.















They return to the Jean Grey School, but what's seen cannot be unseen.

Comments

[thezmage]

I do so love a good verbal smack down, even if I don't really believe it.

[cainofdreaming]

That's not Creed. Not that Creed wouldn't pull something like this to hurt Logan, but the whole exposition talk... it just doesn't come off as him. The whole pattern of his speech is totally different from how it's been, and just the fact that he's making a speech out of the stuff both of them already know and has been said before, that's not Creed either. He's not really into eloquence.

[starwolf_oakley]

Victor Creed isn't an idiot, but he isn't Professor Moriarty either.

[mrstatham]

If the point is visibly putting on a show to hurt Kitty and the others more than hurting Logan - and that seems to be the intent, given he appears to have gotten through to her, then I can see him doing this as maybe a one-off. The real damage isn't the physical harm Logan's been put through, but damaging his relationship with Kitty, arguably. And with that as an endgame, I could see Sabretooth doing this as a one-off, putting on a show.

[cainofdreaming]

Creed hasn't seemed all that interested in Logan's relationship with the X-Men, so that'd be another thing that is new to this iteration.

And he's already tried to pass this stuff on to Kitty on couple of occasions, though only when he's happened to run into her rather than actually targeting her for this. During Logan's marriage ceremony to Viper, for one. And she wasn't having none of it then, so why would he think now would be any different?

[mrstatham]

Because Logan's at a point where he's probably more vulnerable than he's ever been, save for perhaps the ridiculous point in the 90's where the lack of adamantium made his face all monster-mash. He's willing to lash out and he's desperate, as we were shown when he tried to lop off the 'security guard's' arm in the previous issue, only for it to be Mystique. That's what's different now - he's trying to show that Logan is, at the core, nothing but an animal, like him, I think.

The hypocrisy now, of course, is that Creed has suddenly got style all of a sudden, and is trying things differently than he used to.

[cainofdreaming]

Like I said, Creed's already made that point. To Kitty also. Heck, in that story I mentioned their base characteristics were transferred between the three of them - Sabretooth got Logan's honor, Kitty Creed's bloodlust and Logan innocence from Kitty (which I thought was kinda odd, as she was hardly naive junior X-Man any more at this point, but anyways). So Kitty, and Creed on an even more tangible level, already saw that Creed's full of it when it comes to his claim that he and Wolverine are one and the same.

[arbre_rieur]

Yes, but this time, Creed's not just talking but proving it, since the previous issues were all about him pushing Logan into doing morally iffy stuff, like killing an opponent who'd already surrendered and hacking off a guy's arm for being a loudmouth bigot.

[cainofdreaming]

How can you prove something that you've actually experienced yourself as false? Wolvie might be in a bad place right now, and heck land in the morally questionable/damnable land way more often than he should, but he's no Sabretooth. Even Creed knows this by now. He experienced it first hand.

[arbre_rieur]

It's not a binary where he's either as bad as Sabretooth or good and decent. It's a spectrum, and she now sees he's far too much on one side of the spectrum than she's okay with.

[cainofdreaming]

But that's not what's Sabretooth is saying. "Same as me" does not translate to spectrum. And "what Sabretooth said". Both Creed and Kitty are saying, and thinking, the binary.

[arbre_rieur]

I feel "same as me" doesn't need to be interpreted that literally.

[venatosapiens]

I really like this Sabretooth design. He feels more subtly monstrous, like Mr. Hyde. Which is a pretty cool concept for the character, actually.

[donnblake]

Hmm. This wouldn't happen to take place on Wolverine's birthday, would it?

[rainspirit]

Wait, so Victor's real name is "Sabretooth?"

Where does this guy get off dissing Logan for playing superhero?

Still, it's nice to see him with a nemesis again.

[kd_the_movie]

I interpreted it two ways:

1. He's saying that he goes by "Victor Creed", the name he was born with. Whereas Wolvie goes by "Logan" and not James Howlett (mind you he's only known for like two years Marvel time what his real name is)...Basically he goes by an assumed name instead of the name associated with his privileged upper class early upbringing.

2. "Wolverine" is an identity/name in and of itself. Its supposed to represent the heroic side of Logan coupled with the rage/antihero aspects of his long lifetime. Creed's whole spiel was that any decency Logan has is a bunch of bullshit, therefore the "Wolverine" identity is a lie to begin with.

[rslee]

I think that he's referring to the fact that Logan's real name is supposed to be James Howlett.

Still a pretty weak thing for Victor to be calling Logan out on, though...

[mrstatham]

I think it's actually a pretty interesting character wrinkle, actually, that Logan never actually went back to his real name following his memories returning. Understandable, possibly, but still. And in the grand patchwork of Sabretooth's lecture, I think it makes sense - Creed's arguing about how Logan keeps on inventing differences, trying to separate himself from his own past, presenting himself as one thing and actually being another.. I think it makes sense.

[auggie18]

...that seems a bit, well, verbal for Sabretooth, but he raises a lot of pretty valid points. Good for him.

[glprime]

"I couldn't help but hold those peoples' deaths against him. The people that evil villains had plotted to cause the deaths of."

Writers... just... UGGGGHHH.

Huh?

[arbre_rieur]

They wouldn't have died if Logan hadn't decided to go after his sword, though. And the most damning thing is that, as Kitty says, he wasn't "even suprised" when that's how it ended up going down.

If you know retrieving your possession has a good chance of getting people killed as collateral damage, then maybe you shouldn't do it, you know? It's just a sword.

[damar148]

I like it when Creed is being eloquent. People forget he's actually pretty smart and insightful who's only hold back by his aggression and arrogance who just prefers to play the mad animal than pretend to be a civilized person.

There was the time at the mansion when he was kept captive where he had verbal confrontations with almost all the X-Men, and had a pretty good one with Xavier about the Dream of human-mutant cooperation and peace.

[leoboiko]

so Creed is mad because Wolvie isn't his, hm, "confidante"? sometimes you just have to let it go, Creed. I'm sure there's plenty of other fish in the sea and someone is just right for you.

[donnblake]

Did we ever get any confirmation as to whether Sabretooth was Dog from the Wolverine: Origins comic?

[cainofdreaming]

I think Dog made a reappearance as his own character? Not sure, though.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, he showed up in Wolverine and the X-Men a while back as some kind of time travelling bounty hunter. Plus I think we're supposed to get Wolverine and Sabretooth's first meeting in Origins II.

[captainbellman]

In point of fact, Dog and Creed had a recent encounter in "Wolverine and the X-Men" as two aspects of the Hellion school. Creed said Dog must be the guy everyone says was Logan's mangy half-brother. Dog replied that Creed must be the guy who wishes *he* was.

[flint_marko]

I know it's going to be a moot point soon, but the whole thing of having Uatu show up to signify that something really important just happened (like he did in this issue when Wolverine broke his sword) has gotten really tired out. It loses its impact when he shows up for every little thing.