espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
The newest DC weekly has begun with a solid start as some old faces are reintroduced to the DCnU, and a Shocking Event that will have repercussions in the weeks to come...

Quick summary, Jason Bard is hired by Jim Gordon to be a new Shift Lieutenant for the Major Crimes Unit, and is given a tour of the place by Harvey Bullock. They meet Major Forbes, who appears to be a Gotham cop of the pre-Gordon mold, who talks ominously about how Gordon has the city wrong, and the trick to surviving in Gotham is knowing which side to back when things start falling apart.

...Such as what's happening in the rest of the issue, which is a team up between Batman and Jim Gordon against Professor Pyg and his hired goons. Pyg's kidnapped and injected a bunch of kids with some kind of chemical to turn them into dollotrons, a course of action that naturally doesn't make Batman and the Commissioner feel particularly lenient towards the villains.

As Batman deals with Pyg, Gordon chases one of the henchmen... and things begin falling apart.




The train ploughs into the subway station, injuring and killing an unknown amount of people. Batman catches up with Jim, and manages to shield him from the worse of the resulting crash. Afterwards he tells him that he'd patched himself into the subway station's CCTV cameras (something established he can do in Harper Row's introductory story), and the guy didn't have a gun despite Jim's insistance that he trying to disarm him by shooting it out of his hand.

Gordon asks as backup finally arives whether this is the point Batman'll disappear, but this time he says he'll stay. Jim tells him to go, as there are people who need his help more than he does right now. Maggie Sawyer, Major Forbes and Jason Bard show up, who don't react well to Jim admitting he'd fired the shot that caused the disaster to happen.


Jim is lead away in handcuffs, while some firemen react with disbelief that Gordon could do something like this, even by accident. They do admit though that he is only human, and that something like this was bound to happen sooner or later. After all, he's not Batman for crying out loud...

Mini-review: Loved the art and character moments between Jim and the other characters. Although I can see why they added the train disaster (a Good Cop shooting a man who'd help kidnap and drug children isn't exactly something most people would be adverse to), it kind of felt a little overblown. In my opinion at least.

The ending does leave me curious as to where it'll go next, though I have a feeling that Major Forbes (the dude who orders Gordon's arrest) will probably become the new Commissioner, leading to the GCPD sliding back into the Bad Old Days of the Loeb years...

The "Gordon possibly framed for killing a suspect" thing does seem oddly like something from Batman Beyond, but it's too early to say how this plays out.

Date: 2014-04-10 11:51 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So was this the debut of the New52 Spellbinder, since someone wearing oddly tinted glasses and who can possibly make people see things that aren't there, sound like his (or the Golden Age/Infinity Inc. Harlequin) sort of a thing.

Date: 2014-04-10 11:59 am (UTC)
tugrul: That Chest (Default)
From: [personal profile] tugrul
There's a Spellbinder in Constantine #13.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=21089

He makes swirlies like the Batman Beyond version has on his costume, though this version of him is mystical, not technology based.

Date: 2014-04-11 08:04 pm (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Ugh, seriously? Can Batman Beyond not have its own villains?

This is just like when people would complain about old/familiar faces showing up, but in reverse. At least those had a neat "where are they now?" quality that augmented the original/new guys.

This just feels like it's watering the whole thing down.

Date: 2014-04-11 09:22 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
Except Spellbinder was originally a present day DC Universe villain, before the BATMAN BEYOND people decided to give the character their own spin, so this is just returning him to his roots, in a sense.

Date: 2014-04-11 11:16 pm (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Really? I had no idea, so thanks for filling me in.

Okay, I guess this one's okay, then. ;)

Still a little sore about "Blight," though. ;P

Date: 2014-04-10 12:14 pm (UTC)
skjam: Man in blue suit and fedora, wearing an eyeless mask emblazoned with the scales of justice (Default)
From: [personal profile] skjam
We're definitely looking for a villain who can cause hallucinations of some sort. Not fear-inducing enough for the Scarecrow.

Date: 2014-04-10 12:18 pm (UTC)
drexer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drexer
What annoyed me from this was two-fold. First the insistence on having a triple-digit accident just to artificially up the stakes in the beginning of the series doesn't give me much hope regarding the atmosphere this will have going forward. Secondly, the idea that a cop can just shoot a gun out of a criminal's hand; it just goes too far into the cops as superheroes narratives and it diminishes the contrast needed between the ordinary folk and superheroes.

Date: 2014-04-10 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
For me, it's not so much the shooting the gun out of his hand thing as it is doing it in such an accurate way that missing means hitting what's behind him instead of the guy himself. I just don't have the suspension of disbelief to accept him being so accurate.

Date: 2014-04-10 01:04 pm (UTC)
jkcarrier: first haircut after lockdown (Default)
From: [personal profile] jkcarrier
So, damaging a single fuse box (which is sitting out in the open where anyone can get to it) causes the trains to go berserk? I'd say whoever designed such a fragile system is more criminally liable than Gordon.

Date: 2014-04-10 07:10 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Schematic depiction of the operation of a Wankel rotary engine (mechanical)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
Actually, I thought they specifically said that it *didn't* make sense for this single fusebox to override all the safety systems, and that had Bullock, Sawyer, and Batman all somewhat (though not yet overtly) suspicious of the whole thing.

For the record, real subway systems have a number of electronic and mechanical interlocking devices to make such a "single point of failure" accident impossible, at least in terms of the result. Knocking out the fuse box might cause a powered switch to fail, but until such time as the switch was lined properly, both trains would be facing a red "stop" signal before the switch, and would have passed a signal set to a "caution" aspect that would restrict their speeds before they approached that last signal; if they were exceeding that speed restriction, a "penalty" emergency brake application would happen automatically. The speed restriction would require them to be able to stop the train completely within the maximum distance that the operator could see. Once the switch was thrown, the train moving onto the side track would have its red signal change to an "approach diverging" signal that would carry a continued speed restriction, this time down to the maximum speed permitted for the diverging route through the switch (if it's lower than the current maximum permitted speed); the train on the straight route would still have a red signal until such time as the other train had taken the side track and the switch had been relined to let the train on the straight route through, at which point the dispatcher would change it to green. These signals are automatic, displaying a green aspect only when the track is clear ahead with no diverging route set; they automatically show a red "stop" aspect if you're entering a block of track (section from one signal to the next) that another train is in, and show a yellow signal for at least one block before the red signal; the signals at switches can *only* be operated by the dispatcher with control over that particular interlocking, and feature both mechanical and electronic interlocks to prevent them from being set to display conflicting indications.

In other words, to make the collision shown possible, someone would have to have either disabled a whole lot of hardware and software in the signal system to allow two trains to approach the same point at full speed, or, slightly more plausibly, disabled the equipment that would trigger the automatic penalty brake applications on the trains involved.

Given that it WAS shown that the operators couldn't do anything to slow their trains down (by reducing throttle, applying brakes, or even throwing the reverse lever into the opposite direction, which would burn out the traction motors in very short order but drastically slow the train), and neither the dispatchers nor Alfred could even cut the power to the system (which is usually the last-ditch option to reduce the severity of such a situation), it was pretty heavily implied that Jim's bullet didn't break the system, but rather that there had been fairly heavy sabotage involved to cause a crash.
Edited Date: 2014-04-10 07:29 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-04-11 04:05 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
I agree - even very old systems are designed for trains to slow and stop if anything goes wrong. Shooting a fusebox might cause a delay or some busted signals and lights, but not a train crash. There'd have to be sabotage on the train itself, for starters.

Date: 2014-04-11 05:46 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Joker asking Tim Drake, "'Sup?" from Paul Dini's "Slay Ride" (Default)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
Very true. The system I described is Centralized Train Control with Automatic Train Stop. CTC was introduced in the 1920s, and ATS in the early 1930s.

The automatic block signals used between switches were introduced in the late 1890s, IIRC, and locally-controlled interlockings at switches (as opposed to how CTC puts most of those under remote control by a centralized dispatcher) were introduced even before that. The NYC Subway has installed a large number of additional safety systems on top of their ABS/CTC and ATS (or equivalent--I can't recall if they use the actual ATS system or something slightly different in detail) systems, to further improve safety, over the decades.

So what I'm describing isn't really a big new high-tech control system that'd cost Gotham billions to install--it's the stuff that's been industry-standard for almost a century now. (Many mainline railroads don't use ATS, because it requires a cab signal system to transmit the signal aspects to the on-train hardware, but they don't have nearly the traffic density that a major urban transit system has, and thus can't justify the expense. Any place where trains run 80 mph or faster, or where passenger trains run with the kind of density you see on a subway system, is required by federal law to use ATS or equivalent and cab signals...)

Date: 2014-04-10 02:56 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
This is beyond dumb. Who the hell tries to disarm someone by shooting the gun out of their hands? What the fuck?

Date: 2014-04-10 07:29 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Alfred Pennyworth facepalming at something horribly stupid (facepalm)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
Not a cop, that's for damn sure. Cops are specifically trained NOT to try and do that, and instead are trained to aim for center mass (it's hard enough to hit a precise target--like a gun, or even a head--when you're on the firing range; when you're in a real situation, with heart pounding, adrenaline flowing, and possibly bullets coming your way, the only way to get anything near reliable hits is aim for the center of mass), and to keep firing until the target ceases to resist (i.e., drops their weapon and takes a submissive or otherwise nonthreatening posture), because single shots rarely will stop a person.

Of course, Jim pulling the trigger in that situation would be considered an out-of-policy shooting and cause for criminal action against him, anyway--police officers are only authorized to use deadly force (firing a bullet, ramming a car with their cruiser, or anything else that could be reasonably expected to endanger someone's life) to protect themselves or the public from an *active, imminent* threat. If, for example, Victor Zsasz was ruled to have been rehabilitated by the doctors at Arkham (fat chance even THERE, but hey), even if he was seen walking through Gotham holding a machete, GCPD officers would not, legally, be able to shoot him unless he was A) brandishing it in a threatening manner, or B) moving to attack someone with it (i.e., charging at them), AND he was C) within the "deadly weapon" radius of a police officer or member of the public. (C varies by jurisdiction, but typically, a gun is considered to always be a deadly weapon, while a blade would typically be seen as deadly within 30 feet, since that's considered the distance that a suspect could sprint and attack with a blade without any time for the victim to react.)

In this case, while what Jim saw was a suspect with a gun, the gun was not aimed at anyone or being brandished threateningly; the suspect had his hands in a submissive position but still had the gun. Even if a disarming attempt *was* within policy for GCPD, it's NEVER within policy to pull the trigger if it's a situation where you can give a suspect to the count of three to do something, unless the situation radically changes and they suddenly pose an imminent threat.

So yeah, Jim, even if Bats proves that you were being set up, you done fucked up by shooting, because even what you saw wasn't an imminent threat.

That said, Jim Gordon is a good cop; if he saw an imminent threat, he'd just follow training and put as many rounds into center-mass as necessary to neutralize the threat... so even that doesn't ring true to me. (If this turns out to be a plot point--with Batman bringing up that Jim Gordon *wouldn't* go for the hero shot, but instead would go entirely within GCPD policy, and that this proves something was wrong with the situation--then it's a great idea. If not, then my choice of icon stands...)

Date: 2014-04-10 09:17 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Batman has been disarming multiple opponents with single batarangs for years no, I can let this slide.

Date: 2014-04-10 03:13 pm (UTC)
freezer: (I Reject Your Reality)
From: [personal profile] freezer
I find it implausible that Gordon would go for the hero shot, rather than plugging the bastard center mass. Even more implausible: That someone would make Gordon see that gun, KNOWING he'd go for the disarming shot.

Date: 2014-04-10 03:54 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: (One more Time)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
I have to join others in the whole set up for the massive accident bugs me. Gordan trying to shoot the gun out of his hand and happening to hit a fuse box causing all this death just seems unbelievable.

Now see if this was framing Batman I could see it but a good cop should not go for the hero shot and instead should have just dropped the guy. I mean this whole scenario would work better with Batman throwing at a gun to disarm and hitting the fuse box and then being on the run from the cops but it isn't time to pull that plot line out in the nu52 yet.

Date: 2014-04-10 04:24 pm (UTC)
kurenai_tenka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kurenai_tenka
(Thought I may as well read this since it'll be weeks before forbiddenplanet.com coughs my copy up. Seriously, don't shop there.)

It is a bit convenient/contrived, but hardly worse than what DC usually spits out. Still tentatively optimistic! :)

Date: 2014-04-10 08:22 pm (UTC)
writeofway: (Default)
From: [personal profile] writeofway
Could Forbes have appeared any MORE corrupt and on the take in this issue? Seriously, he's grinning like an idiot and all but wiping off the coke dust from his desk into the drawer where he keeps the check from whatever mob family he's bought and paid by. And of course, he can't arrest Gordon fast enough once he hears what happened.

Date: 2014-04-10 09:34 pm (UTC)
writeofway: (Default)
From: [personal profile] writeofway
What does he think Gotham Cops are "supposed" to be doing? This is one of the problems I had with Batman: Year One, the corrupt cops are so corrupt, they basically flaunt it and feel like they can do whatever they want because "connections." They're cartoonish in their utter villainy.

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