Fantastic Four #4

[arbre_rieur]

"In this saga that Leonard [Kirk] and I are telling, everything is there for a reason. Even the red costumes. All will be revealed." -- James Robinson

Comments

[freezer]

If only SHIELD put as much energy into opposing Dr. Doom as harassing the good guys.

[arilou_skiff]

The problem is that it wouldn't work, because Doom doesen't give a fuck.

[freezer]

It just looks odd (to put it mildly) when Maria Hill SHIELD is constantly trying to get force the Marvel heroes under her its thumb. Meanwhile, Doom can bust into a courtroom and kidnap an asylum seeker and every one is like "*Shrug* What can you do?"

[tugrul]

I agree about the Dr. Doom breaking into a courtroom. I understand that practically he's not someone they want to go after for kidnapping his son, but the act of breaking the courtroom itself isn't something the U.S. government would take likely. Then again, they deal with superheroes in the Marvel universe all the time so I can imagine the gravity of vandalism is something like "O hey, another building down. What's for dinner?".

As for SHIELD, Maria Hill expresses being sorry, but her ever present attitude always takes away from that.

Though it makes sense that any apartment with a portal shouldn't be inside any city. If the FF can travel so easily they should be located anywhere else.

[mrstatham]

Doom would pull the usual bullshit involving diplomatic immunity, meaning he'd be untouchable by SHIELD - whose reach and status seems to change by the week. Are they an American operation, do they operate worldwide? I mean, to some degree the lack of definition behind SHIELD works because you can use 'em for whatever you need, but then at other times that lack of definition really stands out.

[philippos42]

Or, in this case, Reed.

[burkeonthesly]

Hold up, didn't the Wizard just get killed by Black Bolt not too long ago, in FF? How is he back?

[icon_uk]

He was being restored to sanity by Black Bolt (as he had recently done for Maximus), not killed, IIRC.

[terrykun]

Nope, the Carnage symbiote healed the brain damage.

Swear I'm not making this up.

[icon_uk]

Sigh... I believe you...

[terrykun]

Near as I can tell, this is the chronology
1. Wizard starts going "run of the mill" crazy.
2. Black Bolt takes issue with some hijinks that endangered Ahura.
3. ???? *Boltagon Stuff*
4. Wizard is "brain damaged and slowly dieing" crazy.
5. Events of Superior Carnage; Wizard is fixed.
6. Profit?

Apparently healing terminal brain damage (like a spike through Kletus Cassady's brain courtesy of Kaine) is something that the symbiotes can do. Hence, Carnage is back to his good old fashioned crazy predicaments and wacky hijinks in Deadpool vs Carnage.

[burkeonthesly]

Oh. Wow, I got a completely different vibe from that scene, what with Medusa's "Black Bolt would have words with you. Goodbye." I pretty much figured that, off-panel, he spoke, and then someone came in and wiped up the smear in a purple hat. I didn't know he had sanity-restoring powers, too.

[md84]

Why is it Maria Hill is only tolerable in the movies? Every time I see her in the comics, I cringe.

[mrstatham]

Different writers don't get her at all. Fraction's run on Iron Man in particular stands out as being (largely) good for her character. Otherwise, it's a writer like Millar who makes her the face of some dubious decision.

That said, I do often wonder if people would kick up the same kind of fuss about said decisions and representation if it was still Fury in charge of SHIELD, given that guy made some equally dubious choices on his own and no-one really said anything.

[freezer]

With Fury's problematic actions, it was either explicit or implicit that it was for The Greater Good - either preventing a bigger Charlie Foxtrot down the line or part of a bigger gambit. And he was generally portrayed as Doing What He Had To Do and was never happy about it.

Hill, OTOH, is generally portrayed as a one-note martinet with a bug up her ass about non-government controlled supers.

[md84]

What really irks me about Maria Hill is that she hides her genuine distaste for supers not collared by the government with her "just following orders" stance. At least Fury was generally honest about being a manipulative bastard for the greater good.

[mrstatham]

Again, it depends on the story, given even Bendis has moved away from her being entirely obnoxious (although his take was never as much of a jerkass as Millar's) and generally just being utterly exasperated with people who arguably *need* some sort of supervision - like Cyclops and the X-Men prominently involved in AVX - and yet are still running around causing problems.

So I think it does depend on the take; To me, typically she has good reason to be concerned about non-government superheroes - even in her intro in Secret War, she was having to mop up Fury's mess and some takes, like Fraction's, made her genuinely sympathetic with her exasperation being justified because she was having to work opposite someone like Tony.

[ablackraptor]

I think at least part of the difference between her and Fury might also come down to how much presence they have. Nick's been in the comics since Lee and Kirby's days, so I think people are sorta used to him when he does bad stuff since we've seen him do enough good stuff to counter it. Most of the time Nick plays the role of the reasonable authority figure who, while he can sometimes but heads with the heroes, he generally knows that they're trustworthy enough to not need him breathing down their neck, so generally, when he gets obstructive, its usually because bad writing, or because he has a reason for it.

Hill, however, has only been in comics for about a decade, and only a few books have shown her in a sympathetic light. Most of her appearances she plays the obstructive role, even when there's no call for it, so she's far less tolerable when she does these things.
Basically, I think Fury's 'earned' the right to be a jackass in most fans eyes, while Hill has done considerably less good to make people forgive her horrible moments.

[his_spiffynesss]

Because in the 616 universe she really is married to that jackass Ted Mosby?

[icon_uk]

Like Barney would be any better?

(and I cannot believe that I just made a HIMYM reference)

[his_spiffynesss]

Though now I am suddenly getting visions of NPH as Deadpool

[drtechnobabel]

If that's even his real name. I mean, check this shit out: http://tedmosbyisajerk.com/. If he lied on one letter about who he was and what side of the mortal plane he resided on, what else could he be hiding?

[silverhammerman]

Ughhhhhh, I hate these kinds of "everything goes to shit" plots so much. Just tooth grindingly frustrating.

The only question I have is whether there's been any mention of the massive power boost that Scott Lang received at the end of the last FF series.

[burkeonthesly]

It was a power boost, but it was also pretty strenuous on his body. I think he was planning to take things easy, keep the heroism to a minimum while he researched the way his power-up worked for a while.

Side note: I've always liked your icon. Gacactus, hee.

[silverhammerman]

Thank you! It's an Adam Kofrod illustration I found on Comics Alliance.

[captainbellman]

Yet another issue of Robinson's run where Sue only seems to speak or take action relative to one of the men in her life or her children.

He really can't see her as anything other than a wife and mother...like, for instance, a fully rounded character.

[icon_uk]

Even then her reaction to her kids (and other children in her care) being relocated without her knowledge was remarkably low key.

[captainbellman]

Eh, it's been done. I think she might be panicking because this time Reed...er, persons unknown didn't blow up the safe house first.

[bjornwilde]

I feel like I read this already with Marvel Knights 4 as well as the Weirego/Waid and the Faction run on F4. I'm tired of the first family being torn apart for stories. It was good a few times, now it's boring and cheap thrills to me.

[halloweenjack]

Even their being banned from the Baxter Building reminds me of the very early issue in which the FF goes bankrupt. (Which, now that I think of it, may have been inspired by Marvel nearly going out of business before their Silver Age renaissance.) Subpoena? Big whoop, how about the time that Reed was put on trial for saving Galactus?

[quatoria]

It seems so very unlikely to me that the pre-eminent mind in all of the Marvel Universe could really be bullied out of - or surprised in - the tower he *built*, home to all of the insanely dangerous things he has, like, just off the top of my head, the fucking ultimate nullifier. It seems just as unlikely to me that Sue Storm would allow ANYONE, EVER, to take those kids without her knowledge and without tearing them to shreds.

[halloweenjack]

One hopes that Robinson will have thought through their contingency plans--unless the point is to have some SHIELD operative pick up the Ultimate Nullifier or run across the time machine and go, "Hey, what does this do?" with amusing/terrifying complications ensuing.

[shingi70]

Not the biggest Fantastic Four fan, but everything about seems unfantastic. For someone who apparently left DC due to the problems on Earth-2 becoming the gritty Batman/superman show you think he'd approach his Fantastic Four run similar to Star Man.

[jlbarnett]

this has all been done before, it's never been done particularly well.

[shadowpsykie]

*cough*Civilwar*Cough*

[crinos]

Didn't they do the "Government tries to take the FF kids away" story already? Didn't it end with the FF demonstrating that if the kids were taken, even if they were hidden in the most remote, secure place ever imagined, the FF's enemies would find them and reduce that place to a crater in like five minutes?

[long_silence]

They've taken the kids to Camp Hammond, you know the place that was last used to train the Hood's army of villains under Osborn's reign.

[bruinsfan]

How exactly do Maria Hill's personnel get through Baxter Building security to relocate the Richards kids and their classmates?

[deepspaceartist]

Why do the government and Hill's SHIELD and all them just not understand that messing with the Fantastic Four is a Grade-A stupid idea?

The FF are beloved public figures in the Marvel U. They're one of the few superhero teams that (usually) doesn't get shat on by the public opinion of marvel's mind-bogglingly stupid general populace. Any public figure that goes on a JJJ style crusade against them is probably going out of business fast and/or not getting reelected.

On top of that, the Four are friends with pretty much every superhero worth having on your side. The list of Marvel supers that aren't friends with and/or have a high opinion/respect of the FF is a very slim one indeed.

So in summary, this action should really turn just about everyone against SHIELD and whatever 'important men' think this was a good idea. Assuming the writer doesn't decide to ignore base logic in favour of the 'drama', of course.

[lieut_kettch]

"Your day in court."

Big green lawyer. Standing right there.

[bruinsfan]

She won't be allowed to defend them because she hasn't passed the bar in Australia.

[crinos]

...what?

[skemono]

Circumlocution for kangaroo court, I expect.

[shadowpsykie]

ah, :"Clever girl"

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Well, they aren't being denied access to the kids, from what I can tell here-- she even says "we can take you to them now."

I think might be more about Reed's portal and such other experiments being a danger to the city and the damage these things are causing.

[cainofdreaming]

Hope Maria isn't allergic to corn. You would think they'd have learned to step lightly around the Richards' kid by now.

[shadowpsykie]

DAMNIT Maria! THIS is what got you in trouble with the supers LAST TIME!