Avengers #41

[flint_marko]

After T'Challa and Black Bolt's betrayal, Namor falls on the planet, where the Cabal find him. He explains that he had left before when he saw the ship in the sky, and explains how the Illuminati have probably tried trapping them on the planet before they blow it up.







So because T'Challa wanted his revenge, the Cabal survived (because Namor was able to warn them in time) and now he has a pissed-off Namor coming after him.

They land on Earth-1610, aka from the Ultimate Universe.

Comments

[sagrada]

Aw, they aren't dead yet? This is like waiting for Bat-Reagan from Walking Dead to kick it. We know it's coming, and each time it's jerked away it's just dragging out the inevitable. And is it just me, or are Black Swan's ridiculous 'pants' starting to shrink? Bad enough she wears sleeves that aren't connected to anything but fervent hope.

Also lol forever at there just happening to be a second collision. That's awesome in its bald-facedness.

[flint_marko]

There's no way Thanos or Maximus are going to die thanks to the movies, and I think Namor is too big a character to be killed off like that either.

[sagrada]

I have faith that the writing staff could come up with a semi-implausible reason to bring them back from being blown up by exploding planets, and traversing the gaps between worlds to get back to the plot in time. Except for the cannon fodder Thanites, of course.

[chrys]

I agree about the pants, but you do know above the elbow gloves (also called evening gloves) are a thing that actually exists, right?

[sagrada]

Yes, though I forget what they're called all the time. I know they're real, I STILL think they look really silly.

[chrys]

Really? I think they look great. And sorry, it just sounded like you thought they wouldn't stay in place, when this is a costume piece that actually works.

[sagrada]

Well they're generally formal/fancy dress, right? And the rest of Black Swan's attire is...decidedly not. To me it's like a monochromatic version of a JRPG lead's outfit(going by the GROSS stereotype that all JRPG leads have bizarre, clashing costumes). On the one hand, painted-on pants(with a slowly dipping crotch-arrow divot) and a swimsuit top. On the other...elbow gloves. And I'm more than 75% sure it's just because that's an inoffensively 'sexy' assortment.

Imagine if she wore stuff that made her look like some weird, New Godsy doctor, with those long black gloves giving her the air of some kind of surgeon. That'd be striking and memorable and fit her I-guess-you-could-call-it character as someone who dispassionately prepares worlds for death. Way better than this eyesore. Maybe something religiousy to fit her backgroundas having been raised by Incursion-nuns, something other than generic eye candy.

[chrys]

Eh. Though I agree it doesn't look good in this issue, I like her design quite a bit, actually. Simple top and pants, sensible shoes, cool-looking gloves - especially when not drawn painted-on.

[sagrada]

Indeed? Why is that, why do you like it? And yes the shoes are a nice change from the All Ladies Wear Heels thing.

[chrys]

I just like how simple it is compared to most designs, like Magik's, for example. Pants and a top, but the gloves keep it from looking too plain. I really like the black and white thing. And no heels gets huge points in my book.

[sagrada]

Oh my goodness I hate Magik and White Queen's costumes so much...and not just because those costumes are nigh-identical.

Yeah, I see what you mean. It's clean, uncomplicated and striking. In the world of ridiculous stripéd pants and huge horned helmets that is the otherworldly side of MARVEL that's pretty outré and unique.

I don't like it, but I'm glad you do. Be really dull if everyone liked/disliked the same thing.

Marvel going the New 52 route.

[7dialsmystery]

The more people who land on Earth-1610 have me convinced it's Earth-616 that's going bye, bye.

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[silverhammerman]

The Ultimate Universe hasn't really been viable since Ultimates 2 though, so I don't see how it could become the main universe with anything less than a full reboot, at which point there's really no distinction between it and a rebooted 616.

My guess is that landing dudes in 1610 is more to do with the fact that the setting has just enough prominence to lend a sense of gravity to its destruction.

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[7dialsmystery]

Marvel has actually announced the end of both Ultimates and Earth-616. Tom Brevoort has said all the old continuity is going to be replaced. I have a feeling they'll replace it with something closer to Ultimates (or the Movie-verse) because characters from 616 keep getting dumped into 1610.

http://www.nerdist.com/2015/01/marvel-announces-the-end-of-the-classic-marvel-universe-the-ultimate-universe-as-part-of-secret-wars/

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[silverhammerman]

The only real intersection has been here, which setting up for Secret Wars, and All-New X-Men which is frankly a matter of Bendis wanting to use Miles Morales more often.

I don't doubt that Marvel will use the opportunity of Secret Wars to do some light revisions and make things closer to the movies, but the promise of actually ending both universes seems like little more than hype, as flint_marko said. I think the likeliest outcome is that we'll get a slightly revamped 616 universe with some of the more successful 1610 concepts (Miles Morales and.... well just Miles Morales) added in.

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[jmacq1]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this whole Secret Wars business is basically just going to end up an "Age of Apocalypse" scenario. Things will be different for a year or so while they see what sticks and what doesn't, and then it'll fold back into a very 616 universe with the most popular holdouts from the alternate realities along for the ride and some continuity patching to make things more like the movies.

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[q99]

The result's going to be 90% 616, 10% Ultimates at best, I'm pretty sure.

Re: Marvel going the New 52 route.

[flint_marko]

I doubt it; the Ultimate Universe is pretty much running out of steam at this point. They're just setting up for Secret Wars, with Ultimate Reed and the Cabal apparently joining forces (if the cover for #3 is anything to go by).

Also:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/24/how-sam-wilson-and-cindy-moon-prove-marvel-is-messing-with-you-over-secret-wars/

[skemono]

Can't Thanos teleport? Or does he just not have that tech with him?

[burkeonthesly]

It's not an innate power of his, it's the tech in his ship/base/funky chair. If he's in a whole different universe than any of those, he's cut off from it. Although it doesn't seem quite like Thanos not to have a short(er) range backup teleporter secreted on his person.

[big_daddy_d]

You know.. I'd rather New Avengers was a Cabal series...as least then you have actual villains destroying worlds instead of a group of men who claim to be great minds and leaders...yet are really stupid and turning out to be dicks. Also made me hate Namor a lot more than I already do.

[skjam]

Here's a review of a more fun book about Namor: http://www.skjam.com/2015/02/04/comic-book-review-essential-sub-mariner-vol-1/

The Maker seems to be looking well.

[7dialsmystery]

Didn't Reed Richards have his face melted off by Johnny Storm?

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[flint_marko]

His face is still a little scarred without the mask.

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[cyberghostface]

It depends on who's drawing him at this point.

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[flint_marko]

I think he recovered from most of the damage after spending 900 years in the Dome.

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[7dialsmystery]

Maybe he took a plastic surgeon in with him.

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[sagrada]

"Richards gave himself a facejob in a CAVE! With a BOX of SCRAPS!"
-Doom slaps occult things off an evil table, ripping his mask off and biting it in rage.

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[burkeonthesly]

Can we get Jeff Bridges to play the next Doctor Doom?

Re: The Maker seems to be looking well.

[sagrada]

And every scene he takes the mask off to yell at some insolent fool and he's got this little Kirbyish scar on his cheek, none of the horrible hideousness that's hinted at being underneath it. In the post-credits Easter egg he throws the mask at the camera while yelling "RICHAAAAAARDS!" and flipping the double-bird at a departing sky-car.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

And, of course, T'Challa, super planning genius, never bothered to *confirm the kill*

I saw it coming, but still plenty stupid.

[thehood]

How would he have done that exactly? His method of killing Namor was leaving him on an exploding planet, he couldn't stick around to "confirm the kill" without dying himself.

It's the same reason Goku couldn't stick around to make sure Frieza was really dead, since he needed to get the HFIL out of Namek.

[flint_marko]

He could have just blown the planet up instantly, instead of waiting a couple of minutes so Namor would suffer first. His sadistic stupidity is what saved Namor's life.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

We've seen, time and again, that they can observe the alternate realities. There's no reason why T'Challa couldn't have at least DVR'd Namor's death for later

[thehood]

So in the end, Namor decided to stay with the monsters. He's a genocidal maniac too, so i guess it makes sense.

In the end, it seems Namor was not as remorseful as he claimed.

[flint_marko]

1) What exactly are Namor's options here? He just escaped from an exploding planet and landed in an alternate universe.

2) He was planning on betraying the Cabal and then going on trial for his crimes. Then T'Challa and Black Bolt turned on him and tried killing him, and thanks to T'Challa getting Bolt involved he probably thinks the other members of the Illuminati were in on it too. If he decides to stay with the Cabal now it's all T'Challa's fault.

[sagrada]

Nightcrawler it up! Namor could just head to the Seas of Asphodel or wherever Atlantean souls go, hunker down, plan his next move, arrange his resurrection on Earth by whatever darn fool means exist for that, and then elbow-drop T'Challa when the Black Panther least expects it.

[chrys]

He didn't decide to stay - he was trapped with the group he was trying to kill.

[chrys]

This issue was so, so good. And unlike the last New Avengers issue, it looks fantastic.