What if the Punisher had killed Daredevil?

[history79]

9 pages of 28

Comments

[joetuss]

So does Spidey not have any super powers in this?...

[locuatico]

he doesn't have bullet-immunity, no.

[joetuss]

No Spidey sense? No enhanced reflexes multiplied by a factor of 15? Doesn't Spidey regularly dodge automatic gunfire a point blank range?

[stolisomancer]

In the full book, he waits for Spider-Man to commit to a full, headlong leap at him from across the rooftop, then fires. He can dodge a lot of things, but that's one of the only ways in which you could hope to hit him: when he's suspended in mid-air and there's nowhere for him to go.

[joetuss]

Yeah, thats fair. I know you can't change directions in mid air, but we're talking about a character in Spidey who was clocked covering 2 miles in 10 seconds on foot. How in the deepest of hells is Castle getting a clear shot on something that moves that fast and also has a precognative sense for danger? Like i said before, he dodges automatic gunfire at point blank range regularly due to these abilities,there is no reason why other than bad writing for him getting shot.

[stolisomancer]

Historically, one of Peter's major weaknesses has always been his restraint. He isn't always running at his utmost potential, especially against somebody like Castle, who at the end of the day is an ordinary guy twice his age with a pistol. He's almost always holding back, especially against somebody who really doesn't stand a chance on paper.

When Peter shows back up towards the end of the issue, berserk with grief, he comes within an inch of killing Castle and only loses because Peter's gone insane. Castle gets his attention by name-dropping Aunt May, and in that moment of hesitation, Castle puts a few rounds into him.

It's a Kurt Busiek comic. On the page, he does everything short of flow charts to justify the situation, and there's exposition that these panels don't show. It's not really worth trying to nit-pick it based on power levels.

[joetuss]

I appreciate your explanation, but im not buying it. Marvel would have you think Punisher could take down a Celestial in a fist fight if given the right circumstances and it's nonsense. It completely takes me out of a story.

[joetuss]

And i think what you meant to say was Peter's major weakness is writers not named Stan

[stolisomancer]

Stan Lee wrote a story in which Peter sprains his arm by, if I remember correctly, breaking a fall by grabbing onto a fire escape. He also wrote stories in which the entirely human Enforcers, which included a guy with a lasso and a short acrobat, were presented as a valid threat against Spider-Man. If Frank Castle being able to get one over on Spider-Man is making you this upset, reading classic Spider-Man stories will turn your hair white.

I'm sorry you're bad at suspension of disbelief, but it's not the story's fault.

[joetuss]

The Enforcers a valid threat?...I don't know, he seems to be thoroughly kicking their asses in my marvel masterpieces collection...while singing no less. I think i've spent way too much time discussing this garbage. I give up. Punisher with a pistol equals world breaker/cosmic being.

[thanekos]

A point he made, recently.

[joetuss]

Good Lord,thank you for this.

[burkeonthesly]

Thinking about it, Spidey's one of the few people who could change direction midair, with a webline.

[stolisomancer]

That's not fast enough for him to use it to dodge a bullet.

Busiek actually writes it as a callback to some of the Punisher's first appearances, when he studies the way Spider-Man moves for a fairly long period of time so he knows exactly when to shoot at him.

[burkeonthesly]

Fair enough.

[locuatico]

and i call bullcrap on that, too. enhanced reflexes does not mean he is the goddamn Flash.

[joetuss]

Nobody said he was Flash. Are you familiar with any of Spider-Man's speed/reflex/spidey sense feats? There is no way this is happening to him. No way.

[locuatico]

and do you know how fast A bullet REALLY is? or FIVE?. and even then, he is emotionally compromised, having reflexes and spider-sense does not mean he is immediatly able to dodge any single thing people throw at him under any scenario, EVER.