Salvation Run #3

[history79]

Comments

[mrstatham]

Well, they couldn't get the visual right for shit, but at least they actually got some of Scandal Savage's characterisation right.

This is still a huge fucking mess, though; under no circumstances should the Joker ever be on even footing in terms of offering a compelling argument opposite Lex Luthor.

[informationgeek]

Want a bigger sign that this is an even bigger mess? Look at the writer for the issue, Matthew Sturgens.

Now, recall, who wrote the last two issues of this mini-series?

[laughing_tree]

True if you're thinking about the serial killer one-tether-on-reality version of the Joker. But the Joker of guys like Morrison or Dini, who's a genuine brilliant criminal mastermind, who you can genuinely believe might be faking the whole insanity schtick as part of a long game like was alleged in that one Dini/Ross story? Sure he'd be able to.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

One wonders why Joker would even stand opposite of Luthor. They've worked together often enough, and with an actual society, the Joker's a one man show with no audience

[icon_uk]

At this point in time it might make sense; The Joker had recently tried to murder Luthor in Outsiders, so no love lost there, and as Infinite Crisis went on to point out, Luthor's Society of Villains actively didn't want the Joker as a member as he's just too unreliable, and would kill or betray any or all of them on a whim if he thought it was funny.

There's a line in Terry Pratchett's "Hogfather", where Susan (Death's grand-daughter) confronts a fairly Joker-like sociopath

'I think I know you,....,' she said, as sweetly as she could for Banjo's sake. 'You're the mad kid they're all scared of, right?'

'The giggling excitable one even the bullies never touched because if they did he went insane and kicked and bit. The kid who didn't know the difference between chucking a stone at a cat and setting it on fire.'

To her delight he glared at her.

'Shut up,' he said.

'I bet no one wanted to play with you,' said Susan. 'Not the kid with no friends. Kids know about a mind like yours even if they don't know the right words for it-'

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

At this point though, Lex and Joker had already kissed and made up (as Luthor had Joker kill Alexander).

But that aside, Joker moving against Luthor strands Joker away from Gotham, away from Batman and away from any potential victims. I just can't see him doing that

[q99]

So, Grodd both calmed the fight *and* sided with Joker? Weird.

I can see Lex's 'common enemy,' angle, but Grodd's one of the big hitters here. Smart and powerful.

[icon_uk]

Grodd is the one that surprised me too. I could see perhaps, since the Joker IS really charismatic, the low-powered or gimmicked-weapon using villains siding with him, but a high level psionic like Grodd? Nahhhhh.

But then again, this is IIRC the story where they decide to torture Killer Frost by dangling her feet into a bonfire as if to melt her... which is absolutely the stupidest thing you could do to Killer Frost, since her cold powers actually work in line with science; she doesn't generate cold (Which on one can do) she absorbs all thermal energy from around her.

[q99]

Yea. Joker has some powerful people, but they're all dumb powerful people, follower types, or ones off-kilter enough for me to buy it. Grodd? He is smart and rational and heeeey didn't Joker blackmail him into attacking Lex in Outsiders like 2-3 years before?

Hm, I'm surprise they didn't give Joker Dr. Light, he's a powerful person who I can see going with the clown.


-
But then again, this is IIRC the story where they decide to torture Killer Frost by dangling her feet into a bonfire as if to melt her... which is absolutely the stupidest thing you could do to Killer Frost, since her cold powers actually work in line with science; she doesn't generate cold (Which on one can do) she absorbs all thermal energy from around her. -

People always forget how KF works.

Didn't it also have Catwoman taking on Cheetah?

'I slice Wonder Woman up on a regular basis' Cheetah?

She is someone else who'd logical be a major, major player here.

[silicondream]

And this was after Cheetah got powered up by Zoom to the point where she could keep Wally West on his toes. I'm not sure she'd have any interest in leading anybody, but I can certainly see her representing the villains who could survive just fine on the planet, with or without civilization.

Abra Kadabra and Mirror Master both carry tech that lets them travel across space, time, and alternate dimensions, so all the supergenius types should be courting them like crazy. IIRC, Kadabra was also the first one to figure out how to talk to the planet's inhabitants, so yeah, major player.

And Effigy's capable of unprotected spaceflight, so I'm honestly not sure why he's even hanging around; he may not be able to fly back to Earth, but he should be able to escape the planetside dangers anytime he wants.

[q99]

-And this was after Cheetah got powered up by Zoom to the point where she could keep Wally West on his toes. I'm not sure she'd have any interest in leading anybody, but I can certainly see her representing the villains who could survive just fine on the planet, with or without civilization.-

There was a story shortly before this (a OYL story) with a Luthor/Cheetah/Joker leadership trio, and during Infinite Crisis she lead a branch of the Society of Supervillains, with a number of the ones from her branch present here. So I think within the last two years, she's had multiple boss positions.

And good point on civilization- Literal jungle goddess. Her going, "Pff," heading out into the jungle with a couple like her, and having a totally chill time would fit (and maybe being approach for alliance later). She doesn't need any help surviving anywhere.

-Abra Kadabra and Mirror Master both carry tech that lets them travel across space, time, and alternate dimensions, so all the supergenius types should be courting them like crazy. IIRC, Kadabra was also the first one to figure out how to talk to the planet's inhabitants, so yeah, major player.-

Right, the political recruiting should play a larger role.

-
And Effigy's capable of unprotected spaceflight, so I'm honestly not sure why he's even hanging around; he may not be able to fly back to Earth, but he should be able to escape the planetside dangers anytime he wants.-

He is the type that I can see maybe hanging around for companionship or such. Powerful but can be swayed by others. Doesn't *need* to stay but can be talked into it pretty easy.

[silicondream]

I can see the Joker deciding that Luthor's the funnest guy to screw with on a planet without Batman, and persuading the more antisocial or thrillkiller villains to join him. I really can't see the Joker convincing anyone that he's an expert on wilderness survival or managing stable societies, charisma or no. Especially when Vandal "I build empires up from the dirt for a hobby" Savage is already working that angle within the story.

[lordultimus]

Grodd should never have a moustache. Never. Especially not one like that.

[silicondream]

He's often drawn with these weird sideburn things, and sometimes they do look vaguely moustachey depending on how confused the artist is about which parts of a gorilla have hair. Not usually that moustachey, though. Maybe he thought he needed a gimmick to match Mallah's beret.

I like to imagine that the meteor cursed Grodd with a mullet and a droopy 'stache and he has to trim himself every couple of hours to hide it.

[lyricalswagger]

I don't get why J'onn changed back to himself to report in.

[silicondream]

Because turning to the camera and saying "None of the others know that I'm secretly J'onn J'onnz, the Martian Manhunter!!!" would be too subtle, of course.