Amazing Spider-Man #19

[cyberghostface]

Of course Peter runs into trouble on the way back as Spider-Man and the clock falls as he's rescuing someone.



In the backup story, Jackal makes an offer to the Kingpin.





Kingpin escapes and vows revenge on the Jackal and decides if he can't do it he'll find a way to get Spider-Man to do it for him.

Comments

[jekylls_salvation]

This reads like some pretty good Spider-Man.

You know, if only there were other Spider-people, like a team, so he could multitas-- oh that's right THERE ARE 25 BILLION OF THEM RUNNING AROUND.

[cyberghostface]

At the time he was just trying to go back and forth from the hospital and shit just kept on happening.

[balbanes]

Clone/Reanimated/Whatever Vanessa is still sentient, right? So Fisk just killed an innocent person for no greater crime than resembling his ex-wife. An innocent person who-- assuming she actually had Vanessa's memories-- loved him and wanted to be with him.

I think we're supposed to be sympathetic to or rooting for Fisk here, but I'm veering the other direction.

[owlbrigade1]

Yeah. I mean I would be sympathetic if it wasn't for the gratuitous murder, I can get why he might reject the clone and not feel that she is his wife. As you point out, murder is an overreaction. Even for Fisk.

[super_fly]

I suspect Wilson the Kingpin Fisk is not someone overly concerned with the finer points of ethics and rights in human cloning/reanimation, especially when someone is trying to use it as a bargaining chip over him.

[vspope]

Let's be honest here. Willie has been around the block a few times. He's been around superheroes, supervillains, the Hand, mystical shit, cosmic forces, mad science that he's paid for, mad science that he hasn't, and lots more. He knows a few things.

Among them is that he buried his wife long ago, that everyday people don't climb out of their box without consequences, and that the wackjob in his office has a resume a mile long full of scientific atrocities, clones, a spider-plague, body-warping and whatnot.

So whatever this is being dangled in front of him, whether it's a shapeshifter or a reanimated corpse or a clone or a mental projection or whatever, is not Vanessa Fisk. And if there's one thing you DO NOT DO to Wilson Fisk, it is to dangle an imitation of the one thing he cannot have in front of him, which is a living Vanessa Fisk.

Also, he's seen Pet Sematary twice.

[zechs80]

Also didn't someone (I think it was the Hand) send a reanimated corpse of Vanessa to kill him? I seem to recall she seemed in pain so Wilson put her out of her misery then.

[wizardru]

I was just about to point this out. I think it might have been during Shadowland? Either way, it's hear on Scans_Daily. The Hand reanimated her corpse and sent it to kill Fisk, who eventually realized she was in pain and wanted death rather the monstroisty that she'd been turned into. This seems a logical reaction from that.

[cainofdreaming]

He actually killed her, after he'd begged her to overcome the Hand brainwashing so that he wouldn't have to, when she was apparently about to deliver the killing blow. Only she had actually overcome the brainwashing in the last moment and had attacked the unseen Hand ninja behind Fisk. And then she died on his arms.

Yeah, so Peter's not so much the only one with the depressing.

[shadowpsykie]

My heart breaks all over again

[thehood]

It's not gratuitous, especially since Fisk saw through an obvious ply to lure him to Warren's side.

Fisk knows what Warren is about, he was never going to fall in line with him.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Is she, though? All of Warren's clones, the relatives of people he wants to be allied with, have all pressured their loved ones to fallen in line with Warren. Every single one.

They seem more like meat puppets to me.

[reveen]

That just seems like brainwashing. They'd be meat puppets if they were lobotomized and he programmed everything they say and do to the letter.

[cainofdreaming]

Why would he clone for higher brain functions? That just breeds disobedience, as he has learned from Kaine, Ben and all.

[thehood]

That would explain why all of the new clones have all been blindly loyal to Warren.

[locuatico]

This... is actually consistent with Fisk's character. the one thing he will NOT tolerate is someone trying to pull something like this with his dead wife.
It is also believe it is supposed to put Fisk in clear contrast to the other villains who accepted the deal: he not only has come to terms with his dead wife's death. he loved her enough to understand she would not approve of something like this.

[burkeonthesly]

Well, remember, the last time Fisk saw Vanessa, she was some kind of ninja-draugr the Hand had raised to try to kill him, because re-killing her would snuff out the last spark of hope in him (and if he wasn't "worthy," she'd kill him).

[thehood]

Vanessa was never innocent and these clones are only loyal to the Jakal. This was a ploy to blackmail Fisk into working for Miles Warren.

So Fisk made the right call. Plus Vanessa has tried to kill Fisk before.

[cyberghostface]

When did Vanessa try to kill him?

[deh_tommy]

I think the Hand reanimated her corpse and sent her to attack him at one point.

[chrisdv]

Oh, those rapscallions.

[bruinsfan]

I've watched enough Buffy to be on Fisk's side in this. He just got the heartbreak out of the way quickly rather than waiting to find out Vanessa now subsists on a diet of human babies or something first.

[lieut_kettch]

Fisk kills innocent, sentient beings all the time for lesser reasons.

[reveen]

Is there someone inherently fucked about Jackal's clones. Because a clone with the original memories is still the same person... well, not the same person, but still an actual person.

I mean, if Jackal's clones are little more than meat puppets or theyre actually Cronenbergs in human form then fine. Otherwise, harsh Fisk.

[owlbrigade1]

Well they are clones, so they'll probably all turn out to really be Peter Parker somehow. Isn't that how clones work in the Spider-comics.

[thehood]

Except not really, because all these clones are loyal to the Jakal.

[draganoche]

A broken clock? MANHATTAN!!!!! *shakes fist at sky*

[locuatico]

Okay. I understand what they tried to set-up with the clock... but couldn't we, for once, have an actual sweet moment between Peter and JJJ by having the clock actually be intact?

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Yeah, it's this kind of stuff all the time that kind of makes Spider-Man a bit too depressing of a read.

What held him up, anyway?

[cyberghostface]

A construction worker was going to get killed during an accident.

[locuatico]

It's like, him failing to be in time would be enough. the clock being broken is overkill.

[tigerkaya]

Not the first time Slott made the obvious, he had rain pour down as Jameson was holding his dead wife.

[locuatico]

and that is actually good symbolism.
the problem with this is that having Peter accidentally break the clock is just throwing salt into injury.

[janegray]

Hear hear.

[thehood]

I don't think you understand the issue. Even if Peter had the clock intact they were not going to have a "sweet moment".

Peter was adamant that Jay did not use the New U treatment, while Jameson insisted on it

Either way Jameson was going to blame his father dying on Peter.

[locuatico]

The broken clock is still overkill to me.

[mizerous]

Kingpin: When this is over I'm gonna make you as green as the Green Goblin when he died Jackal.
Jackal: Or I can just clone him to kill you.
Kingpin: ...

[crinos]

Just want to say I am loving Jackal's new costume. That stupid green Sasquatch suit never did anything for me, and it seems he got a new personality to go along with it (as opposed to being the raving clownish buffoon he was before).

[cainofdreaming]

I always found it weird that he looked more like a green goblin in that getup than the Green Goblin does.

[crinos]

I think it might be because they wanted Jackal to be the new Green Goblin (Since Norman Osborne was dead at this point in the clone saga), so they did everything to make him the new Green Goblin. (And because his entire origin was he had a crush on Gwen Stacy and hated Spidey for letting her die). So I can totally buy Jackal was meant to be the new Green Goblin and it just never took off.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I don't know about that. While my admiration for Conway knows no beginning, I'd still give him enough credit to think that when he started the who Jackal/Gwen clone arc, he had some idea how it would end, so the Jackal was created with a finite lifespan. On the other hand, you never knew how permanent death was, even then. Gwen stayed dead. Norman stayed dead. Hammerhead came back.

[thehood]

I wonder if this is why Kingpin is back in NYC in his current book.