Penguin and Riddler

[cyberghostface]

From Gotham Underground #9.

Comments

[kamino_neko]

Is this post inspired by recent events on Gotham? (My scream of frustration in Ed's last scene of last night's episode...)

[janegray]

Dare I ask?

[kamino_neko]

Spoilers for the most recent episode:

Penguin is in love with Ed. Ed...being Ed is hard to read, but seems to be reciprocating, at least theoretically. Penguin invites Ed to dinner, and we're treated to a scene of him rehearsing how he's going to confess his love, which then cuts to Ed agonizing about what bottle of wine he's going to bring to the dinner...then a woman who's a dead ringer for Ms Kringle (Ed's love interest from the first two seasons, who he accidentally killed last season), shows up, then starts riddle-flirting with him. Of course, she's clearly not going to be an actual love interest for Ed - this is so obviously someone targeting him for mischief, it's facepalm-inducing that he couldn't figure it out. But she's going to be a complication for the Penguin/Nygma 'ship, and given the personalities involved...

[janegray]

WOW. I had NO IDEA Penguin was gay (bi?) in the show O_o

Sorry, sorry! I get the frustration with the bait&switch, completely understandable. But I haven't been watching the show, and this is the very first time I heard that Penguin/Ed might actually have a shot at being canon. This is great new out of the blue, I didn't expect that at all, and it makes me happy to hear it even if the baiting is frustrating ^^

[kamino_neko]

This is actually the first indication Gotham!Penguin has any romantic/sexual inclinations aside from the very Oedipal relationship with his mother.

But...yeah. I'm actually still holding out hope it's not just a bait and switch, since it's so early in the season, and Isabella is clearly trouble, but this turn is...the word's been overused in this conversation, but it's the best one...frustrating.

[viridian5]

With my slash glasses on, I've been side-eyeing Penguin's attachment to Jim and the many ways he expresses it since the first season.

[burkeonthesly]

I felt like they had great friendship-chemistry in the second season, they build each other up and wind each other up the way my friends and I do, but this is a surprise. I'm not saying I'm against it, just that it seems either a little out of left field, or arising from that place where no two characters can have any kind of positive relationship without it becoming romantic and sexual. Going to wait and see before I judge, of course.

[kamino_neko]

arising from that place where no two characters can have any kind of positive relationship without it becoming romantic and sexual. Going to wait and see before I judge, of course.

Which, honestly, fits these two characters pretty well. Ed's only close relationship before this was Ms Kringle (which was specifically romantic, even if it was mostly one-sided until near the end), and Penguin's was with his mother (which was intensely Oedipal). Whether they're only capable of getting close to people they're attracted to, or become attracted to anyone they grow close to...it does fit their history.

[burkeonthesly]

Both also had strong and distinctly nonsexual (albeit still deeply unhealthy) friendships with Jim Gordon. Oswald also had a very complicated, but you have to admit, very close relationship with Fish Mooney--again, not sexual, but I'll admit she certainly leaned on the Oedipal button in her underlings' heads. And Eddie had that budding friendship with Lee, before he jumped off the slippery slope.

[zapbiffpow]

The hell you say! (Not a tone of disapproval, just general exclamation.)

I haven't caught up with the show since Eddie shivved Ms. Kringle's cop boyfriend, but apparently a lot's happened since. Huh.

[cyberghostface]

This has been on my queue for a while but yeah pretty much. :)

[janegray]

I really loved this scene. I've always had a weakness for villains who care for each other.

Xanatos & Fox, Harley & Ivy, Jessie & James and Meowth, Flash's Rogues, the Doronbo Gang, the Black Moon sisters... Loved them all :)

[q99]

Funny, I can't remember them interacting much aside from being part of big Batvillain crews, but it does make sense, Penguin and Riddler are the two sanest big-time Batvils (leaving out Catwoman) and they both have a sense of style.

Their interests don't always line up (Penguin cares about status and money, Riddler about proving himself smart), but nor do they clash.

[janegray]

They don't normally interact much (or... at all, really. Pity). But the writer of this particular arch did try to build them up as friends, based on, as you said, sense of style and (by their standards) sanity.

There were several scenes before this one were the two of them are happily chatting and eating together. At one point Penguin sends Eddie one of his nicest wine bottles, Two-Face sees that and asks Penguin why the heck he is so nice to Eddie. I don't remember the exact quote, but Penguin scornfully replies something like "who the eff else can I discuss Caravaggio with, Killer Croc!?"

[q99]

Exactly :)

[zapbiffpow]

Great scene! I've always figured Penguin and Riddler'd have stuff to talk to, but this is the first real concrete proof of that I've seen in a while.

The villain chumship I do remember Riddler having was with Selina, back in his private investigator days.

[tcampbell1000]

I dropped Gotham the TV series a while ago and I'm not sure this new relationship is enough to get me back into it. Representation is nice, but when I left, the show just seemed to be throwing any Batman-related idea against the wall and seeing which of them stuck.

I'm not sure this is any different. My concept of Penguin and Riddler is that neither of them are really capable of romantic love because they're too busy constructing their own egos as the man who broke through all the barriers to join the highest of high society and the smartest man in the world, respectively. This is an issue with any romantic or sexual relationship with most of Batman's long line of male villains (and it's why the impulse to romanticize the Joker-Harley relationship creeps me out). If I were to pick two to pair off, leaving Clayface's current uncertain status aside, I'd probably go with Ra's al Ghul and Bane.