cyberghostface: (Joker)
[personal profile] cyberghostface posting in [community profile] scans_daily

"A friend of mine has a crush on Joker, but she feels bad because he's evil. My Batman story makes it OK to have a crush on Joker!" -- Sean Murphy


Date: 2017-10-04 02:26 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Can't help feeling that if people want a Joker to crush on without feeling bad about it, the Jokester was right there.

I really, really liked the Jokester. I wish he hadn't been killed :(

Date: 2017-10-04 02:46 pm (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
I love Murphy's work, especially on Hellblazer, but I just don't get this.

Date: 2017-10-04 03:46 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So the previous multiple murders that Joker committed don't count? Only his most recent breakout and the resulting chaos?

Date: 2017-10-04 03:57 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Ah.... okay... So is there another reason that everyone in the GCPD reacting like the Joker is the worst criminal EVER then?

If you have to change the premise of the character this much, then it's not really showcasing him as a flipside of Batman is it? (And I don't even LIKE "Super-murder-death-kill" Joker)

Date: 2017-10-04 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
maybe he's had some failed attempts at something big?

Date: 2017-10-05 11:19 am (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
Making parallels with how Real World police treat certain people -- Black, Latinx, mentally ill -- as being far worse threats than the actually are, and are thus disproportionately subject to police brutality?

Date: 2017-10-04 11:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
So when he says he was going to awaken Gotham with terror?

Date: 2017-10-05 02:37 am (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
So he's more like the Cesar Romero Joker of the 1960's Batman series?

An odd choice, but I think toning him down like that is the only way a redemption story could work.

Date: 2017-10-04 07:52 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
In this universe the Batsignal, which shines from the roof of the GCPD, is suppose to be a secret???

Date: 2017-10-04 10:47 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (bat o'lantern 2)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
The old Joker would say, "Kill all the lawyers."

Date: 2017-10-04 10:49 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Yeah this doesn't work for me. I mean sure when you apply Real world standards to the Bat comics it falls completely apart and stops being an escapist hero fantasy and becomes a terrifying tale of a guy in a bat suit committing all kinds of legally and morally reprehensible actions in his crusade for vengeance for a tragic event.

Which is why I always hate when writers decide to bring the real world into it rather it is to discredit the claim (news flash it doesn't only sticks out as a shoddy attempt to say how wrong the criticism is) I mean let Batman be the fantasy it is in a world where vigilantes can be good things instead of nightmare fuel incarnate.

Which brings me to my problem with this on one hand every critism this joker levels would apply in the real world and in a deconstruction comic using a batman stand in might make a good story line. But it doesn't work in a Batman comic tied to a wider world and someone like the joker now sane or not should not be the one bringing it up if your going to bring it up at all. Which again IMO is not somethign that hsould be happening in a batman comic.

Date: 2017-10-05 12:15 am (UTC)
fra080389: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fra080389
So. Is Joker the new Two Faces?

Date: 2017-10-05 01:55 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Not that taken with this. If this Joker isn't a mass murdering dangerous psychopath, then he should be treated as if he's any of a dozen of Batman's far less dangerous villains. If he IS, then sudden bout of sanity or not, he's never getting out, no matter how he appears now. 'He's better now' might allow him some degree of lattitude or legal recourse, possibly even escaping criminal prosecution (thought it would take years to resolve that) but his sanity now would immediately open him up to civil cases from his victims.

My main problem, though, is that if you're going to lean-in to real world elements, firstly you need to fully lean-in to them and second, you need to actually read up on those elements. Joker, for example, should be saying specifically that Batman is agent of the GCPD...the signal is evidential, but there are tons of examples of Batman acting with the tacit approval of the GCPD, thereby making him a legal agent of them (and thus making them liable). Of course, the standards for prosecuting and finding police officers guilty is higher and juries usually expect a higher standard of proof...and even then, penalties are generally lighter.

Plus, if you're going to go down this road, you start wondering about the larger implications. Why hasn't anyone attempted to sue Batman or the GCPD before? Why does everyone accept Batman, the villains or any number of shenanigans with just a shrug. Why hasn't the government intervened in the obvious crisis happening in Gotham? The more realism you introduce, the more the fantasy can't bear the weight and it becomes self-defeating.

I think this is an interesting idea, but this execution seems...muddy for me.

Date: 2017-10-05 03:37 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
On top of it all, to my tastes at least this Joker seems strikingly poor material to be crushing on.

Date: 2017-10-08 07:57 am (UTC)
jaxjyls: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaxjyls
I'm going to be honest here, I found it to be pretty bad


scans_daily: (Default)
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