Star Wars: The Rise of Kylo Ren #2

[cyberghostface]

"These are the moments where the fate of the Force, the fate of the galaxy, and the balance of the Force, all these things are on the scales being weighed. And this book, if we do it right, should be building and building and building to a moment where Ben makes a choice and you understand why he does it and you realize he had no choice, even though he thinks he’s making one. That’s what the story’s supposed to be. That’s what happened to Anakin. If we do our job right, it will feel utterly inevitable and also utterly preventable, which is the tragedy of the whole story." -- Charles Soule

Comments

[nyadnar17]

I really thought Luke was just going to take his whole hand off.

Also I am getting more and more confused as to what the "Darkside" of the force every day.

[polly1788]

its supposed to be a corruption of the force, Lucas has always said that balance was when there was no dark side

i wish this stuff came out during the force awakens cause now i don't care

[deh_tommy]

I think the imbalance isn’t the Dark Side so much as that is the Sith, since most Sith sought to twist and abuse the Force for their own selfish ends and let themselves be almost completely consumed by that.

[lissa_quon]

Ah yes - Lucas' idea of "balance" is apparently unlike any other previous use of the word.

I always assumed the whole "Anakin bring balance to the force" was achieved after he killed all the jedi leaving only a handful of them - and a few sith. Foolish me. So he achieved balance by throwing Palpatine out of a - wait...that didn't work out either.

[strejdaking]

Isn't the force supposed to be space Taoism? Because there, the point isn't that there should be balance between good or evil, but between exitence's opposites and "evil" is what disturbs the harmony (I think).

Honestly, balance meaning both light and dark side being equal strikes as pretty stupid. It's the whole "both killing no babies and killing all babies is bad, we should sometimes kill babies and sometimes not".

[icon_uk]

I think I eventually saw it like this.

The Force itself is neutral, it's the energy field that Obi-Wan talks about. It permeates everything, but doesn't do anything about it for the most part because it's not sentient.

It has something analagous to currents and tides in it's nature, based on how much life there is around it. (I try to ignore midichlorians as a concept)

Force senstiive people are able to draw on that energy.

Jedi are like surfers, they're ride the energy, not disrupt it. Pull out as little as they can, keep the harmony going as much as possible.

Sith are like the thoughtless pillocks who ride jetskis near the shore, they plough through the Force tide, grabbing the power they want, regardless of the consequences to the current and the life floating within it. If they want to build a bigger jetski they wll and sod you if you interfere.

Then I read what Lucas though and that basically shot holes through most of it, but I still like my idea better.

[polly1788]

whos worse the jetskiers or the cigarette boat dicks ?

[icon_uk]

I had to look up what a cigarette boat was...

Snoke?

The Knights of Ren?

[polly1788]

oh a cigarette boat might be an american thing

Snoke is palpatine while evil doesn't seem to ruin your time at the beach

the knights are irreverent like all the squeals villains vastly underdeveloped

[shadowpsykie]

I think that is pretty much how I saw it... though I suppose I saw it a little more grey.

The force itself is neutral. how it is used is what is key. Even anger itself, it is a natural emotion. how one reacts to that anger, how one uses that anger is what is important. Anger can be an important survival mechanism, so can fear, all the emotions that are viewed as "dark" is natural. Using force lightning out of anger, in order to protect a loved one, or protect innocents, is not "Evil" same with using force choke to knock out an enemy without killing them.

my problem with the jedi has always been "Emotions are bad" rather than "Emotions are natural, but should be controlled and used when appropriate?//"

[lordultimus]

"my problem with the jedi has always been "Emotions are bad" rather than "Emotions are natural, but should be controlled and used when appropriate?//"

Well, that's supposed to be a sign that the Jedi Order has become corrupt. Qui-Gon Jinn's "feel, don't think" philosophy was supposed to represent what the Jedi should properly be.

[deh_tommy]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Jedi were corrupt since they had the right ideas and brought about a lasting peace for a millenium, but there were definitely a few areas that could have been improved on (I mean, that says something that pretty much every Jedi barring Yoda in the prequel era had some kind of secret love affair or really close friendship with someone else).

[lissa_quon]

Enh my personal stance has been - emotions aren't bad - it's how you act on them.

But yea - nah the EU with the Games had a few folks who were jedi who were more gray than anything. Where it's less "you used force lightning so you are bad" and more "the question is why/who you used it against." BUT alas - all that nice perspective and ideas got lost in the wash.

[deh_tommy]

Isn’t that pretty much exactly what Lucas said, though? Barring your sentience comment, you and shadowpsykie are pretty much right on the money.

I never really got what was so terrible about midichlorians. That’s just a fancy way of saying someone is Force-sensitive, something that’s kind of always been a thing, even just implicitly.

[icon_uk]

I don't think so, since Lucas was the one to mention "The Dark Side of the Force". If the Force is neutral, it can't, by definition, have a Dark Side OR a Light Side.

The Jedi and Sith both seem to claim that the Force works differently for them because of the Force, not because of them

...and then we were introduced to the Ashla, the Bogan and the Bendu.

[mister_terrific]

And then there's the Bendu..."the ones in the middle".

[joetuss]

The Force itself is neutral, it's the energy field that Obi-Wan talks about. It permeates everything, but doesn't do anything about it for the most part because it's not sentient.


Except for the time it knocked up Shimi Skywalker to spite Sidious, and Plagueis.

[scorntx]

-I really thought Luke was just going to take his whole hand off-

Maybe he's trying to cut back?

[reveen]

Ah, so there's another donut steel darksider character who's critical to understanding Kylo's status as the bad guy that the movies did not deign to tell us about. Yeah okay, fine.

[cyberghostface]

They’re in the movie this is just explaining why Kylo was hanging around them.

[deh_tommy]

They could have been replaced with lamps and they would have had about as much impact, though. That would have been nice to see this kind of character out of them in the movies.

[scorntx]

It would've been nice to see any kind of character out of them.

[locuatico]

Question: Are you reffering to the boy band possing in the sand and under the rain or actual characters?

[cyberghostface]

I'm referring to the Knights of Ren, yes. The main guy is an OC but it's still in the purpose of explaining something the film established but didn't explore as opposed to just throwing some new OC Donut Steele out of nowhere.

[locuatico]

No, the purpose is to establish something the movie actively told us to not care about by relegating them to little more than background noise.
That's kinda my joke: Whatever soule tries to do with the knight of ren, this is a story that suffers because we KNOW for a fact the knights of ren are pointless and do not matter.

[cyberghostface]

The series isn't about them specifically, it's about Kylo Ren. They're important to his origin. Same with Snoke who at the end of the day was basically a pointless character thanks to Rian but you can't do a Kylo Ren origin story without exploring who/what he was to him.

[locuatico]

The movies also made his origin be not important not only by simply making some vague notions about being tempted by outside sources, but by also having his change to the light side be as underwhelming as possible. You can show Kylo's origin, his relationship with the Knights of ren and actually show his struggle and conflict that the movies kept on telling he supposedly had. It's ruined because we know how the journey ends: with a wet fart.

as an aside, the movies perfectly explained everything we needed to know about Snoke and used him as much as it was needed: He was Kylo Ren's master and someone for Kylo Ren to kill and surpass. Snoke fullfilled his narrative utility in The Last Jedi.

[cyberghostface]

By that criteria there shouldn’t be stuff about the sequel trilogy period given how things turned out.

[deh_tommy]

I disagree about Snoke. That worked for the Emperor in the Original Trilogy because there weren’ any prior movies until much later. That’s weird to go from Episode VI to Episodes VII and all of a sudden there’s apparently this Emperor figure suddenly in control of the Galaxy again. Who is he? What is he?

That’d be like watching Episode I and then jumping all the way ahead to Episode IV. You can kind of sort of piece together the pieces of what happened between films, but you miss out on a lot of context.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah I remember Rian Johnson on Twitter tried equating not knowing who the Emperor was in the original trilogy with Snoke which I found to be disingenuous.

[locuatico]

The entire existence of First Order as a whole makes is that unless you are already into the expanded universe.
Who and what he is is an obstacle for the real villain to destroy, which would be Kylo. if you tell his story, you waste time telling people about this character who does not matter. This is different from Kylo, who the movie COSNTANTLY claims he has a complex backstory, but refuses to tell anything about it until the audience no longer cares. then begin to explore it in a medium that most people will not reach.

[cyberghostface]

'if you tell his story, you waste time telling people about this character who does not matter.'

Then they shouldn't have made who he was a mystery in the first place.

"This is different from Kylo, who the movie COSNTANTLY claims he has a complex backstory, but refuses to tell anything about it until the audience no longer cares."

Huh? We learned all we needed to know about Kylo's backstory in the first two films.

[scorntx]

-"We're legendary"-
I can certainly believe the Knights are legendary.
Why, your average Knight of Ren could easily be a legend.
With their ability to remain missing for years at a time, or do extraordinary deeds entirely unseen.
They could almost never have happened at all.
Just like a legend.


But in all seriousness, it really dilutes the attempt to make the Knights seem like a dark and mysterious force when they were apparently formed by a shirtless hillbilly type.

[tripodeca113]

The Knights of Ren are so legendary, in the films you don't actually learn what a Ren is.

Real impressive.

[scorntx]

Apparently it means "lightsaber".
So Ben Solo renamed himself "Kylo Lightsaber".

Now, to wait five years to learn what the heck "Kylo" means.
(Probably "person who is unable to satisfactorily explain what a Ren is.")

[tripodeca113]

I bet it'll mean something like "He who really idolizes Darth Vader, and wears a lot of black".

Or maybe it's a word for kyber crystals, so his name means Ligthsaber Crystal Lightsaber.

[viridian5]

Dammit, Moon Moon!

[mastermahan]

I guess that explains why none of the Knight of Ren had lightsabers.

Wait, no.

[lordultimus]

I think "Ren" is one specific lightsaber.

[dr_archeville]

Wait, so Kylo Ren named himself after (er, in accordance with the naming conventions of) the Knights of Ren? The Knights of Ren didn't name themselves after him?

[mistersandman]

Looks like it! Is it sadder that they weren’t a bunch of hangers on but an established organization of people who stand around and pose while wearing black?

[lissa_quon]

Well now I'm more confused. Cause I sort of assumed the Knights were like his posse. But they aren't?