Amazing Spider-Man #36

[cyberghostface]

"It was not Doc Doom and other villains at ground zero, just like it was not a young child crying for his fallen father. It was a representation...a symbol...a metaphor for real feelings and thoughts. It was, excuse the sugar-coating, JMS' and my heart and soul on those pages. I didn't ever cringe at the thought of those characters being in that spot. To me, it made sense. This kind of cowardly, unspeakable horror effects all of us...ALL OF US! I don't want to say...‘Lighten Up’! I want everyone to concentrate on what happened on 9/11. Don't forget...Don't EVER forget!" -- John Romita Jr.

Comments

[lego_joker]

I don't mind the underlying concept, but if you're going to make the villains purely a metaphor (and to be fair, I don't think any subsequent issues ever mention this?), shouldn't there also have been some kind of metaphor to represent the towers? It feels weird for one side to be literal and the other... not.

(What said metaphor might've been, I can't say, because Doom in particular is willing to destroy just about anything to prove he's smarter than Reed. Maybe Dr. Octopus would've been better as the mad-scientist representative...)

[lego_joker]

ETA: Just noticed Ock is there. Along with... Juggernaut?

How intelligent was he again, during this era?

[cyberghostface]

He was reformed during this point during Chuck Austen’s run.

[janegray]

Kinda "funny" (as in "not at all remotely funny in any way") that when 2,966 people died, it was considered such an unimaginable tragedy that absolutely any response to it, no matter how bloody and drastic and dire, was regarded as acceptable.

But now that 3000 deaths are the bodycount since, like, wednesday, Republicans insist that it's a trivial matter and certainly not worth the hassle of wearing a mask for ten minutes while grocery shopping.

[beeyo]

It is really fucking depressing. These are the people in charge, they've made it near impossible for us to get them out of power, and they've made it clear that they could give two shits about anything other than whatever gets them the next dollar/vote. It's all fucking rich people shenanigans that we can't do a damn thing about and it fucking sucks.

[shadowpsykie]

Magneto, i could see doing this; he would not have liked an attack like this on women and children.... (depending on the day of the week?)
Kingpin because he's a new yorker...

but DOOM!? DOOM is DOOM! DOOM cares about latveria! He is DOOM!

[panthyr]

Malfunctioning Doombot.

[shakalooloo]

That weeping figure in the green cloak has blue eyes. Doom has brown eyes.

[lordultimus]

Doom is especially weird since one of his previous acts of villainy was blowing up the FF's base, which was a skyscraper in New York City.

[filthysize]

Juggernaut literally toppled one of the towers in a Spider-Man/X-Force crossover.

[sisterofbloomerjunior]

*Shrugs* Maybe he really likes the area around the U. N. Building?

[shakalooloo]

I'm not sure that the 'Beyond Forgiveness' line is a good look for Spider-Man.

[cyberghostface]

Why?

[tcampbell1000]

I know JRJR and JMS had good intentions. Never doubted that. But this still ended up being incredibly dumb, and it really, really didn't have to be.

I know why it's like this: Magneto and Doom are the highest-profile representatives of other nations Marvel has and the message is one of international community. This wasn't just an American tragedy, it was a world tragedy! But sorry, if you want to be half plausible, you're either going to have to settle for someone like Batroc the Leaper or else stay local (Doctor Octopus would've worked fine, and J. Jonah Jameson's reaction would've been genuinely and appropriately painful to watch).

To JRJR's point, I can accept the thesis that anyone is affected by a big, symbolic tragedy. Let's even be generous and say that Doom might be given pause at the destruction of such an edifice to power and prosperity, the sort that he often aspired to build. And of course he wants to ACT as if he regrets the death of innocents. But he'd be rationalizing away the death and destruction within seconds and find a way to pin it all on Richards before sundown.

No, the only way his standing there and crying makes sense is if it's a snow job, a deliberate attempt to further Latveria's international standing so that the next time the Four go after him, there'll be people in America saying "Hey, he stood with us at the towers! He can't be ALL bad!" Which might indeed say something about the more cynical side of the 9-11 response, but not anything the authors intended.

As for Magneto, he might still be human enough to be genuinely horrified, but his "symbolic" presence still invites a lot of questions about how this happened in a city full of godlike figures that those narrative captions are doing their best to wave away.

[cyberghostface]

As for Magneto, he might still be human enough to be genuinely horrified, but if he was, you'd think he might, oh I don't know, use his INSANELY POWERFUL MUTANT ABILITIES to suspend all the wreckage in the air for ten minutes

He is lifting the wreckage. Look at the panels.

[tcampbell1000]

You are correct, and got to this just as I was editing it! But my new final paragraph there stands up a bit firmer, I think.

(Yes, it's true the hero community can't anticipate every threat, and lots of us believed the first plane crash was just an unfortunate accident so there wasn't much scrambling to stop the second. But it's also true that the towers were burning for hours before they fell, and maybe Magneto was out of the country and took some time to arrive, but shall we go down the list of other heroes/villains who might've been able to prevent or delay the collapse?)

[icon_uk]

J.J.J. would absolutely have been the point to end on I think, even have him, Kingpin and Spider-Man have a moment of numbed horror between them since they are all New Yorkers.

[ap0cryphal]

All it would take is one change to render this conclusion to something heartfelt, from this tonal train wreck.

I absolutely rag on this issue for that last panel, but the tone being overwrought is - expected. Hell, you know what, keep Doom in the Villans Mourn Too shot.For all we know, a bunch of Latverians died too.

But to land the last panel: make it Magneto who sheds a tear.

[gnarll]

Absolutely. Given his history, this kind of cruelty to civilians could strike home with him. And there is also the "Humans will never change" line with him.

[superfangirl1]

This tribute to our every day heroes and every day people doing extraordinary things is incredibly moving and well sentimental touching.