NS: The Snyder Cut Justice League movie
Mar. 18th, 2021 07:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lucean posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
scans_dailyAs most here in this fine community are without a doubt aware, the Snyder Cut version of the Justice League movie came out on HBO Max today, in the full glory of four hours. Having just finished It, I decided to create a discussion post here about it while posting some of my thoughts on it.
Before digging deeper in to the movie itself, a couple of caveats. First of all, I really like both Man of Steel and Batman Vs Superman, so Snyder's sensibilities works for me. Second, while I was fine with the original Justice League when I first saw it, but as time has gone by, I've found myself disliking more and more. It is a film that aims to be okay and that emptiness at the heart of it really became heavier for me in retrospect. Still I realize there are people who like it, nothing away from that.
So with that to this version of the movie itself and I will begin the discussion by a simple statement. I FUCKING LOVED THIS FUCKING MOVIE. Now that I have that off my chest, to more collected points.
-This movie is a weird success as it is in structure in many ways the same movie as the original Justice League movie, but almost every scene feels better here. Some of is just the additional depth majority of characters are given here, but it has a flow that isn't the original. However, the most important aspect is that here everyone in the Justice League feel absolutely epic and like a god with the action sequences espeically managing to convey that sense of power.
-With that said, the movie has a lot of stumbles to it as well. The exposition is ridiculously clumsy at times and there is a really bziarre plot hole in the film. So there is a world which had the Anti-Life Equation and where Darkseid was defeated, but apparently the Apokalips crew has forgotten which world it is somehow. Yet they know they lost the Mother Boxes on that world and know that the Mother Boxes are on Earth, but only realize that Earth is the world that repelled Darkseid after Steppenwolfe tells them that. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Fortunately didn't bother me at all.
-On Steppenwolfe, while he was still a generic comic book movie villain, I thought this version managed to give him a lot more depth as I got the character and motivations surprisingly better.
-Continuing on that note, it isn't difficult to understand why majority of the actors involved wanted this version to be released as they are allowed to do more here, wtih one notable exception, and have far more impactful character moments.
-Still the first Martian Manhunter cameo was really dumb. Not only that, it felt like a big misstep as the Martha/Lois scene before that was actually really emotionally powerful.
-"You have a satellite?" "I have six."
-Barry's final run was epic. Hell, the whole final fight concept and choreography was excellent and managed to sideline characters in a way that wasn't Clark leaving a massive fight to big brother Barry.
-On that note, this was something baffled me. Comparing the original and this version makes it abundantly clear how much Johns influenced the original theater release as evidenced by the lack of those weird Superman fawning scenes in this version. Seriously, I sighted out of relief when they didn't have that bizarre 'You think you could beat me' scene between Clark and Bruce here. Now that makes sense, but what I couldn't figure out it is that Johns absolutely loves Barry, but the Flash was so much better here and allowed to do more. Like seriously that final run.
-I will never stop shipping Bruce and Diana. While it will never get fulfilled in this film series, at least it was nicely set up.
-What genuinely shocked me was that Bruce being suicidal arc was completley from Whedon and Johns. It had the best emotional scene in the theater version, the talk between Bruce and Diana, but still as an arc it was a really weird one which I had assumed was from Snyder.
-To return to the comparison between the theater version and this cut, what makes the theater cut so astonishing looking back now is that it made almost every scene worse. Like they actively cut and added to all action scenes stuff that made them inferior. It is such an accomplishment.
-The only note I will make on Whedon, despite there being a lot to be said because of this version and recent allegations, is in comparison to Snyder. To put it simply, Whedon is nowhere the level Snyder is on in capturing superpowered action. Actually I would put Snyder as among the best when it comes to that specific skill as his ability to really give that sense of power to those scenes is genuiinely impressive.
-Real sad we will never get that Batman/Deathstroke film as it would have been dope. Having written that, the Knightmare stuff was superweird as that was apparently the only new scene Snyder shot after his cut was greenlit. Which means that the only thing Snyder added was a cliffhanger scene that will never be resolved. I'm conflicted on that as on one hand it is stupid, but on the other hand I can't help but respect that level of committment.
-With all that positivity, there is something that does leave me conflicted. The toxicity for and against Snyder, and his DC films, is a huge problem in online discussion. It also cannot be denied that the fact that there were some pretty questionable actions by the fanbase that wanted the Snyder cut released that led to it now being available. This isn't to justify what they did, but rather a part of me feels torn on enjoying something that is born out of such poisoneous fruit.
-Rotten Tomatoes score is at the time of writing at 77% and there's a lot of good buzz on it, at least based on what I've seen. From the critical stand point, this had to exceed WB's expectations, which is a good signal when they think of similar projects in the future.
With that I end and would love to hear others thought on this as they get around watching it. Apologies on the many words, hopefully at least a few of them made sense. And seriously, I loved this movie so much.
Before digging deeper in to the movie itself, a couple of caveats. First of all, I really like both Man of Steel and Batman Vs Superman, so Snyder's sensibilities works for me. Second, while I was fine with the original Justice League when I first saw it, but as time has gone by, I've found myself disliking more and more. It is a film that aims to be okay and that emptiness at the heart of it really became heavier for me in retrospect. Still I realize there are people who like it, nothing away from that.
So with that to this version of the movie itself and I will begin the discussion by a simple statement. I FUCKING LOVED THIS FUCKING MOVIE. Now that I have that off my chest, to more collected points.
-This movie is a weird success as it is in structure in many ways the same movie as the original Justice League movie, but almost every scene feels better here. Some of is just the additional depth majority of characters are given here, but it has a flow that isn't the original. However, the most important aspect is that here everyone in the Justice League feel absolutely epic and like a god with the action sequences espeically managing to convey that sense of power.
-With that said, the movie has a lot of stumbles to it as well. The exposition is ridiculously clumsy at times and there is a really bziarre plot hole in the film. So there is a world which had the Anti-Life Equation and where Darkseid was defeated, but apparently the Apokalips crew has forgotten which world it is somehow. Yet they know they lost the Mother Boxes on that world and know that the Mother Boxes are on Earth, but only realize that Earth is the world that repelled Darkseid after Steppenwolfe tells them that. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Fortunately didn't bother me at all.
-On Steppenwolfe, while he was still a generic comic book movie villain, I thought this version managed to give him a lot more depth as I got the character and motivations surprisingly better.
-Continuing on that note, it isn't difficult to understand why majority of the actors involved wanted this version to be released as they are allowed to do more here, wtih one notable exception, and have far more impactful character moments.
-Still the first Martian Manhunter cameo was really dumb. Not only that, it felt like a big misstep as the Martha/Lois scene before that was actually really emotionally powerful.
-"You have a satellite?" "I have six."
-Barry's final run was epic. Hell, the whole final fight concept and choreography was excellent and managed to sideline characters in a way that wasn't Clark leaving a massive fight to big brother Barry.
-On that note, this was something baffled me. Comparing the original and this version makes it abundantly clear how much Johns influenced the original theater release as evidenced by the lack of those weird Superman fawning scenes in this version. Seriously, I sighted out of relief when they didn't have that bizarre 'You think you could beat me' scene between Clark and Bruce here. Now that makes sense, but what I couldn't figure out it is that Johns absolutely loves Barry, but the Flash was so much better here and allowed to do more. Like seriously that final run.
-I will never stop shipping Bruce and Diana. While it will never get fulfilled in this film series, at least it was nicely set up.
-What genuinely shocked me was that Bruce being suicidal arc was completley from Whedon and Johns. It had the best emotional scene in the theater version, the talk between Bruce and Diana, but still as an arc it was a really weird one which I had assumed was from Snyder.
-To return to the comparison between the theater version and this cut, what makes the theater cut so astonishing looking back now is that it made almost every scene worse. Like they actively cut and added to all action scenes stuff that made them inferior. It is such an accomplishment.
-The only note I will make on Whedon, despite there being a lot to be said because of this version and recent allegations, is in comparison to Snyder. To put it simply, Whedon is nowhere the level Snyder is on in capturing superpowered action. Actually I would put Snyder as among the best when it comes to that specific skill as his ability to really give that sense of power to those scenes is genuiinely impressive.
-Real sad we will never get that Batman/Deathstroke film as it would have been dope. Having written that, the Knightmare stuff was superweird as that was apparently the only new scene Snyder shot after his cut was greenlit. Which means that the only thing Snyder added was a cliffhanger scene that will never be resolved. I'm conflicted on that as on one hand it is stupid, but on the other hand I can't help but respect that level of committment.
-With all that positivity, there is something that does leave me conflicted. The toxicity for and against Snyder, and his DC films, is a huge problem in online discussion. It also cannot be denied that the fact that there were some pretty questionable actions by the fanbase that wanted the Snyder cut released that led to it now being available. This isn't to justify what they did, but rather a part of me feels torn on enjoying something that is born out of such poisoneous fruit.
-Rotten Tomatoes score is at the time of writing at 77% and there's a lot of good buzz on it, at least based on what I've seen. From the critical stand point, this had to exceed WB's expectations, which is a good signal when they think of similar projects in the future.
With that I end and would love to hear others thought on this as they get around watching it. Apologies on the many words, hopefully at least a few of them made sense. And seriously, I loved this movie so much.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-20 12:52 pm (UTC)My view is - they knew that when they hired him to do the movies. It's not like it was secret. They hired Snyder to follow Chris Nolan - who has a similar dark style, although not quite as operatic. And Nolan kind of handpicked him.
DC had come off of the Nolan Batman films, which at that time were the most successful superhero action franchise. They even got an Oscar nod. This was before Iron Man was released. And Nolan was done - so they went with Snyder.
They knew what they were getting with Snyder. They had to. They wanted a dark operatic style and they got that, and it wasn't that successful. The only fix would have been to go in a different direction after Batman vs. Superman. Not after post-production on Justice League.
So, I can't say I blame Snyder for getting frustrated with them.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-21 12:01 am (UTC)Both Jenkins and Wan almost GLEEFULY averted the color schemes in Wonder Woman and Aquaman with the practically NEON Atlantis, almost oversaturated Amazon shots and the eye-searing WW84, these color changes were loved by both critics and fans.
There WAS a push to get Snyder kicked off Justice League post the failure of BvS, there were assurances (not sure who, either his supporters or Snyder himself) that JL would be 'different'. He had JUST enough support of the various PTB to keep him on for Justice League, then that first cut came in and it ALL went to hell.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-21 12:39 am (UTC)I thought the operatic style worked.
It should be noted that I disliked the Aquaman film (I thought it was silly and the CGI was awful), and I did not like WW 1984. So, I kind of diverge from the fandom on that score. This is all very subjective after all. And I think some of it comes down to what you are looking for in a superhero film? Or what works?
I don't like all of Snyder's films. He gets very dark at times, and very operatic, and like you say - it doesn't work for everything. I'm on the fence as to whether it works with Superman, although it was nice to see a different take on the iconic hero (who let's face it much like Batman has been done to death by now).
Actually I think that was the success of the Marvel films - they focused on lesser known superheros, who had never had a film done. I mean Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor were kind of new. (Incredible Hulk had been done to death - so they were wise to not do a film with Ruffalo).
DC - probably should have lead with Aquaman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and some of the lesser known ones - such as Green Arrow - actually Green Arrow might have been a nice substitute for Batman.
That's what they did on television - they pursued the lesser known characters like Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow - Black Canary, Constantine, etc.
The problem with the DC film verse is some of these characters have been overdone. And as a result the audience has a preconceived notion on what they should be, and a favorite version. I mean I know people who don't want to see any version other than Tim Burton's or the old 1960s series. While my preferred version of Batman is actually Christian Bale, and Ben Affleck doesn't bother too much as an older take on that. Same with Superman..
no subject
Date: 2021-03-21 12:55 am (UTC)The slow build was testing the was out of necessity, they didn't have Disney backing them in those days, so they couldn't just do Avengers, its been stated if any of the first few films were Bombs? We would have never gotten the MCU we know today.
And DC DID try to launch with something other than Superman or Batman, Green Lantern was that attempt and we know how THAT ended.