See he says that, or similar, a lot and I think we're supposed to think it makes him notionally sympathetic, and if Max had done one single fracking thing since... well, basically shooting Ted Kord, that might actually make me think he wasn't a bad guy, I might buy that. As it is, despite him wittering on about not being the bad guy I see nothing which would make me NOT want to use his head for soccer practice.
yeah, it really doesn't work. For Max to admit that the universe seems to favor the good guys he has to admit the heroes are the good guys. So if he's opposing the good guys that makes him the bad guy.
Yeah, and even if he knew about some threat the heroes don't, maybe he might just tell some of them? Just doing awful things while saying "trust me" doesn't really cut it.
Won't know until he tries. Hell, he's got Jaime at his mercy, even if he's not dumb enough to reveal his Grand Plan (tm), at least he can mention whatever threat he's fighting.
Certainly better than making a vague reference to being a good guy to someone he's having tortured.
Well, his mission bestowed by the Entity was to stop a war that would basically destroy the world, which he did by killing Magog, so I guess that could count, though definitely not in your traditional, heroic way.
Then have them explain why he does. Saying he's in the right whilst sadistically torturing a teenage hero isn't exactly winning him much benefit of the doubt.
Narratively, they could be showing that Max is slowly building up to some kind of Good, or Greater Good, that he feels justifies his behavior; unfortunately, all they've done (that I've seen) is tell us he thinks he's doing the right thing.
Maybe at the end it'll turn out that he actually IS acting in the Greater Good, but if they don't put the gun on stage in the opening acts, nobody buys it when there's a gunshot just before the curtain =p .
No, I'd have to disagree. He thinks he's a good guy, that superheros are bad, and can't see that he's the one who's bad. It's the same story he's been spouting since he went bad, and I don't think we're supposed to emphasize with it.
That said, this is a bit telling of his character - he's genre-savvy enough to know that the good guys always win, but not genre-savvy enough to realize that he's the bad guy.
If he thinks he's the good guy, why not be prepared to explain, or at least articulate, what he's talking about instead of just saying "I'm doing the right thing" over and over and over, it's not remotely convincing.
As it is all he's known for is murder, the other guys are known to save the planet and individual people on a fairly regular basis, him saying "I'm the good guy here" just plain doesn't work without SOMETHING more to back it up.
He has articulated his position in the past; that superheros, with their amazing, godlike power, will inevitably wind up destroying the world, and must be stopped before they do so. He just doesn't feel like expositioning the whole thing to his captive right now.
In his mind, the fact that he was able to control Superman at all is proof that someone else can do it, and therefore he is justified in trying to kill him and all others like him before that happens. It's not a very good justification, but it's good enough for Maxwell Lord.
the point is though, he says the universe seems to set things up so the good guys win. He says this because Superman, the Justice League, etc always manage to win. If he believes he's the good guy and they're bad then he should believe the universe balances things out so the bad guys win.
Basically he's on the wrong side of whatever universe balancing force there is, no matter what they officially are.
He doesn't believe that they're bad guys, he believes that when they go bad (no "if" for him here), or are mind controlled to go bad, then there is little anyone could do to stop them. Hence, the "I mind-controlled Superman, therefore someone else could do it too" example. He is removing the threat before it happens, and is therefore on the side of good.
Yes he is on the wrong side, but has thoroughly convinced himself that he's not.
Not buying it either. I mean, no telepath, mystic or super-science nerd has noticed that everyone on the planet has been infected by a mind-virus? If it's just been a single time suggestion it'd actually have been more believable, though still not enough, but now that it's an active connection with Max drawing on the psyches of every single individual... How can that not be noticed?
It's like every road on the psychic plane leading on one individual. With guideposts, and free maps on every stop.
But it doesn't work that way. If you take the D.C. multiverse as a whole you'd realise that good and evil have little to do with it. It is specific PEOPLE that always win.
Superman/Ultraman, Batman/Owlman it doesn't matter if they set out to do good, evil or evil for the sake of good. It's these special individuals that always triumph.
The realites themselves don't have an alignment they have protagonists.
These protagonists always win. So in worlds where the protagonists are paragons of virtue it can apear that good always wins but this is just an illusion.
That's a good point. And weirdly, it means that Max is partially right, that the normal laws of protagonist-good-guy-wins are suspended, because he has metatextual plot armor, at least for the time being.
Hence Max being able to restrain Blue Beetle with a few c-list helpers, despite Jaime being theoretically more than a match for a kryptonian or green lantern.
One could argue that in the Earth-3 Universe, where EVERYONE is Evil...Owlman, Ultraman and the rest ARE the good guys, relative to their universe; so the good guys always win there, too.
In other universes, we've seen that the mantle is more important than the individual, probably because those characters are the ones who get involved in the world-shaking stuff. Superman has saved multiple realities multiple times. Snapper Carr has...been around Superman when he's saved the world.
Is the Scarab offline? Otherwise how the HELL is Max Lord and Ivo standing there at all?
The Reach Infiltrator Scarab isn't like other powersuits, it has it's own initiative, can act when Jaime is unconscious or even misinformed, and has some pretty horrifying weaponry that Jaime refuses to use. The damn thing was preparing to try and fucking kill The Spectre using some kind on ontotechnological magical weapon out of a kind of pre-programmed panic before Jaime stopped it.
Max got him by having the mind-controlled Creature Commando Medusa (who's evidently 'further mutated') do a total bodily paralysis on him.
Then he had a bunch of G.I ROBOTs carry him back to Checkmate base, where I guess whatever's he's hooked up to is probably neutralizing it in some way or form.
I'm giving WInnick too much credit, but I hope he's building up for Khaji-da to unleash some of the stuff that Jamie's never let it use in order to end Max.
"Definitely fatal. Possible theological implications."
Ditto, how the holy hell did Jaime get captured in the first place and why isn't the Scarab freaking the hell out (read: blowing everything to smithereens) over this?
Max: "No really, I'm the good guy! Well, back to torturing you now. Real sorry about that, by the way, but it's just business. Haha."
Max's "just business" line reminds me of the film Taken where the main dude that runs the sex trade thing tries to use that excuse right before he gets a bullet through the head from Liam Neeson.
Also, I said this in a Generation Lost post before, but I'll say it again. Max, you need to stop being hot to me. Look at you with your tight shirts and your little smirky face and your biceps. STOP IT. It makes it harder to hate you.
You know, Max, I MIGHT find your classic 'I'm not the bad guy' delusion a little easier to swallow if you didn't keep violating certain basic rules of good guy behavior.
1) You are currently employing criminally insane sociopaths. Professor Ivo? Really?
2) There's 'you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette' and then there's 'I'll needlessly endanger lots of people because I'm lazy, indifferent or insane'.
3) Taking advice from a supernatural being that tells you that other supernatural beings are bad (but hey, trust him, he's not like the OTHER supernatural beings) is a bit specious.
4. You seem to split hairs in an awfully weird way. Someone's a superhuman when he disagrees with you, regardless of whether he actually has powers or not. And you don't seem to mind employing superhumans when it suits you.
5. You are a murderer. Who MURDERS people.
Seriously, dude....if your idea of protecting people is to randomly select people and forcibly transform them into robotic police servitors...you're doing it wrong.
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:27 am (UTC)Certainly better than making a vague reference to being a good guy to someone he's having tortured.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 08:44 pm (UTC)pantsmind, he certainly seems to be.no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 10:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 11:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 05:15 am (UTC)Maybe at the end it'll turn out that he actually IS acting in the Greater Good, but if they don't put the gun on stage in the opening acts, nobody buys it when there's a gunshot just before the curtain =p .
Not a good guy
Date: 2011-01-27 09:14 am (UTC)That said, this is a bit telling of his character - he's genre-savvy enough to know that the good guys always win, but not genre-savvy enough to realize that he's the bad guy.
Re: Not a good guy
Date: 2011-01-27 10:59 am (UTC)As it is all he's known for is murder, the other guys are known to save the planet and individual people on a fairly regular basis, him saying "I'm the good guy here" just plain doesn't work without SOMETHING more to back it up.
Re: Not a good guy
Date: 2011-01-27 09:50 pm (UTC)In his mind, the fact that he was able to control Superman at all is proof that someone else can do it, and therefore he is justified in trying to kill him and all others like him before that happens. It's not a very good justification, but it's good enough for Maxwell Lord.
Re: Not a good guy
Date: 2011-01-28 01:45 am (UTC)Basically he's on the wrong side of whatever universe balancing force there is, no matter what they officially are.
Re: Not a good guy
Date: 2011-01-28 09:18 pm (UTC)Yes he is on the wrong side, but has thoroughly convinced himself that he's not.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:43 am (UTC)I do not like you at all.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:04 am (UTC)Not a bad wank with the self-reinforcing mindwipe, but I'm still not buying it.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:19 am (UTC)Thanks for the correction. :D
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 02:30 pm (UTC)It's like every road on the psychic plane leading on one individual. With guideposts, and free maps on every stop.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 04:33 am (UTC)Superman/Ultraman, Batman/Owlman it doesn't matter if they set out to do good, evil or evil for the sake of good. It's these special individuals that always triumph.
The realites themselves don't have an alignment they have protagonists.
These protagonists always win. So in worlds where the protagonists are paragons of virtue it can apear that good always wins but this is just an illusion.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 03:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 06:27 pm (UTC)Hence Max being able to restrain Blue Beetle with a few c-list helpers, despite Jaime being theoretically more than a match for a kryptonian or green lantern.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-28 01:01 pm (UTC)In other universes, we've seen that the mantle is more important than the individual, probably because those characters are the ones who get involved in the world-shaking stuff. Superman has saved multiple realities multiple times. Snapper Carr has...been around Superman when he's saved the world.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 06:15 am (UTC)The Reach Infiltrator Scarab isn't like other powersuits, it has it's own initiative, can act when Jaime is unconscious or even misinformed, and has some pretty horrifying weaponry that Jaime refuses to use. The damn thing was preparing to try and fucking kill The Spectre using some kind on ontotechnological magical weapon out of a kind of pre-programmed panic before Jaime stopped it.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 06:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 08:23 am (UTC)Then he had a bunch of G.I ROBOTs carry him back to Checkmate base, where I guess whatever's he's hooked up to is probably neutralizing it in some way or form.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 09:06 am (UTC)Ah well.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 08:42 am (UTC)"Definitely fatal. Possible theological implications."
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 08:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-28 03:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 10:14 am (UTC)Max's "just business" line reminds me of the film Taken where the main dude that runs the sex trade thing tries to use that excuse right before he gets a bullet through the head from Liam Neeson.
Also, I said this in a Generation Lost post before, but I'll say it again. Max, you need to stop being hot to me. Look at you with your tight shirts and your little smirky face and your biceps. STOP IT. It makes it harder to hate you.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-27 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-28 01:38 pm (UTC)1) You are currently employing criminally insane sociopaths. Professor Ivo? Really?
2) There's 'you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette' and then there's 'I'll needlessly endanger lots of people because I'm lazy, indifferent or insane'.
3) Taking advice from a supernatural being that tells you that other supernatural beings are bad (but hey, trust him, he's not like the OTHER supernatural beings) is a bit specious.
4. You seem to split hairs in an awfully weird way. Someone's a superhuman when he disagrees with you, regardless of whether he actually has powers or not. And you don't seem to mind employing superhumans when it suits you.
5. You are a murderer. Who MURDERS people.
Seriously, dude....if your idea of protecting people is to randomly select people and forcibly transform them into robotic police servitors...you're doing it wrong.