NIGHTWING #6

[superfangirl1]

Later as dick gives a dedication speech to his parents. He gets interrupted by Raymond.




The book dick found are the name of Talons selected from Haly's circus because it's a testing ground for the TALONS of the Court of Owls.
Dick was suppose to be a talon but his parents deaths and Bruce feeling empathy for the young boy fouled everything up so the court took the next best canidate Raymond into the role.

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

hmmm iadmit... i didn't see that coming... that's an interesting plot twist... though i hope that doesn't mean dick's parents knew about it...

[atom_punk]

Huh. Makes sense actually. Need people capable of performing death-defying stunts for you? Check out the circus! And there are families like the Graysons with young children who can be indoctrinated over the years to serve you faithfully.

Never will I look at Barnum and Bailey the same again...

I doubt that Dick's parents knew about it. I don't think there would be any reason for them to know. As in there doesn't seem to be any advantage for the Court. After all a secret is best kept by fewer people.

Loving how the other writers are tying their stories into Snyder's over on Batman. Can't wait to see the Bat-family try to take Gotham back from the Court of Owls!

[icon_uk]

I doubt that Dick's parents knew about it. I don't think there would be any reason for them to know. As in there doesn't seem to be any advantage for the Court. After all a secret is best kept by fewer people.

Though was the murder of the Graysons arranged to make Dick vulnerable and ripe for indoctorination into the Talons? (I hope not, but....)

[sistermagpie]

I was trying not to say this out loud because I didn't want it to be true, but this is definitely my fear.

[atom_punk]

Hmm. Continuity snarl ahoy...

In most continuities I'm familiar with, Dick lost his family when they refused to pay protection money to mobster Tony Zucco.

But with the new DCU that is called into question. Is Zucco still in-canon? Is he an agent of the Talons and Owls?

Maybe the Court planned to kill the Graysons, but Zucco interfered and killed them unexpectedly. The Court wanted to try indoctrinating Dick anyway but were surprised that multi-billionaire Bruce Wayne took him as his ward.

Since Bruce Wayne is too public a figure to remove without causing a ruckus, the Court decided to let Dick go, thinking one less foot soldier is not worth risking exposure.

[icon_uk]

I was thinking of the Zucco as an agent of the Owls, the way we eventually found out that Joe Chill was an agent of Lew Moxon.

[atom_punk]

Eh. As much as I like to see unifying arcs and themes across comic books, too much connectivity makes it a tangled mess. And though I feel bad for saying this, I hope Zucco killed Dick's parents (without connection to the Court) in this new universe.

I even preferred it when the mugger who killed Batman's parents didn't even have a name and was not part of the mafia. He was literally just some random guy who was desperate enough to kill for petty cash and a pearl necklace.

[sistermagpie]

Me too. In my head, both those are canon. Joe Chill was a no name petty thief and Zucco was a run of the mill criminal leaning on the circus. The original crimes were small scale and unimportant to the criminal.

[atom_punk]

Which made it all the more poignant when the casual callousness of the criminals leads to massive, life changing events for the heroes!

Sometimes a jammy dodger is just a jammy dodger. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[darkknightjrk]

I had a feeling it was something like this.

I dunno what it is, since there is potential for some interesting stuff, but what I've read of this book hasn't really grabbed me. I hope it improves after we get away from the circus.

[sistermagpie]

Agreed.

[icon_uk]

I think my issue is that A) Nightwing's first arc is all about his past, but isn't addressing what's changed about his past in the DCnU, so it's incomplete. We still have no idea if he's the same... lynchpin I suppose, of countless characters he was before the reboot.

B) There seem to be too many sudden links to the Court of Owls appearing simultaneously and apparenly unconnectedly across the books. If they are large enough, old enough and powerful enough to be a threat of this sort, how has Batman, and even the League of Assassins no idea they exist (Damian would know if they had League dealings)

[darkknightjrk]

The first thing doesn't really bother me--because he feels enough like the same character and, honestly, a lot of his history as Nightwing post-Titans I really just don't give two shits about.

The second...it makes sense to me because it looks like it only sends out agents like Talon when it absolutely has to, so it's very possible that the Court is this super-exclusive group hasn't really needed to take action since Batman came around, if not longer.

[icon_uk]

But it's his pre- and during- Titans membership which appear to be most "at risk", as there were now no Titans for him to be in.

Dick gained his centralised role by being Batman's sidekick for so long, during which he met most of the then current heroes, then as the Titans leader he was established in a position of authority of most subsequent young heroes, either directly, or at first remove through the heroes Titan members went on to work with.

Now with the suggestion he didn't become Robin until he was 16, and for a VERY short period of time if there have been four of them in 5 years, plus not Titans-networking, it's all very vague.

[darkknightjrk]

Have you read Red Hood #6 yet? It pretty much showed what I assumed to be the case all along--that Dick has history with most of the people who we once knew as the New Teen Titans, they just didn't have a formal name.

[atom_punk]

Can't answer the first question for sure but as to the second:

Has there been any evidence that the Court has power beyond Gotham City? They don't seem to be interested in anything other than keeping control of what they view as their territory which is small and profitable with minimal risk (i.e. compared to trying and failing to conquer the world).

The League of Assassins is international and has its origins in Eurasia from what I remember and is very old since they serve/are associated with Ra's al Ghul. Maybe the Court is still "new" enough (being established in America) and small enough that they slipped under the League's radar?

It certainly is difficult to explain how all these "super-secret" cults, leagues and government agencies don't end up bumping elbows with each other.

But if the Court remained mainly in Gotham it makes more sense than say how the Black Glove and the League of Assassins don't end up in conflict since they are both global in nature and have opposing goals (hedonistic and materialistic pleasures and a "cleaner" world respectively)

[icon_uk]

If they're recruiting Talons from a travelling circus, then I'd say they have links beyond Gotham.

[atom_punk]

Hmm. Fair enough. But again, I don't know if they would have a national or even international reach that would make them obvious to the League of Assassins. I mean, I know Ra's has spies everywhere but would he really turn his attention to a traveling circus?

A base of operations in Gotham City with a few discrete agents in Haly's Circus and other places might still slip under the radar, but I'm no espionage expert :P

I also have no idea how Batman managed to get the technology, manpower and resources to build the Batcave, Batmobile, and Bat-space shuttle without someone getting suspicious that Bruce Wayne is embezzling billions for personal projects....

Sigh, oh comics...why do you do this to us?

[bradygirl_12]

Love seeing Alfie in casual clothes! :)

[icon_uk]

Your logic makes sense, but it might be worth noting that (unless I missed something) there was no mention of the Court of Owls in the book, just that quote there about Raymond's past.

[superfangirl1]

I wish I could take credit for the logic. But got the Court of Owls theory from reading from reviews,dc message forum and Comic Book Resources.

Thought it might be true since all suggested the same theory. :P

[darkknightjrk]

One of the solicits for Nightwing #8 confirmed that the list that Dick found was actually a list of Talons. Plus, if you've read the Batman book and seen the hints on how the Talons were picked/chosen...it becomes pretty obvious.

[icon_uk]

Which is why inter-title crossovers are annoying, I haven't read the other titles (Well, not all of them, consistently) so snippets like that being revealed elsewhere before they show up in the title that's actually focussing on the plot point is getting as bad as Chuck Dixon's internal continuity in his later Bat-books

[darkknightjrk]

Well, you should be reading Batman anyway, because it is pretty damn good. :P

[zapbiffpow]

I thought it was little Bruce that was meant to be a Talon, but yeah, Dick as a Talon seems to make more sense (unless they were meant to be two different generation's worth of Talons, which would look probably cool in fan art)!

And it's been sort of confirmed - during that issue where he found Book of Names, there's a 'William Cobb' listed a few pages before Dick. It's the same William Cobb that Dick's going to fighting in Nightwing #8.

[darkknightjrk]

"unless they were meant to be two different generation's worth of Talons, which would look probably cool in fan art"

It seems like there's going to be multiple generations. In Batman #6, the last page is the lead Court woman telling them to open up all the coffins and "release them all." From what we've seen, it looks like the Talons have some sort of machinery or something that gives them a certain healing factor. Over on The Source, they revealed that the Talon that's going to be in Catwoman is the same one that Jonah Hex will be fighting in All-Star Western.

[bradygirl_12]

Looking at this again today, I have to admire the pretty art. All the color and brightness suits Dick. :)