Batman #17: Death In The Family Finale

[superfangirl1]

The Joker has Batman strapped to an electric chair at the head of a table. On each side of the table sits the members of the family, each with their faces rapped in bloody bandages. The Joker tells Batman that they’ve each been anointed with gasoline and that there’s flint under his chair. So if he tries to bail out, they’ll all die in a fire. He reveals the cover from the dinner, and inside are the faces of each member of the family. Of course this really sets Batman off, but being Batman he has a way out because he’s smarter than the Joker.

It turns out the whole faces being ripped off thing was another Joker prank, and Batman is reunited with the family right before The Joker douses all of them with his gas, which causes the members of the family to start fighting it out with each other as Batman chases the Joker down.








Bruce informs Alfred that after he took in Dick as robin. He visit arkham asylum as Bruce wayne and bribe his way into joker cell. He then look joker in the eyes and show him the joker playing card he found in the bat-cave. The Joker was non-responsive and ignore him the whole time.

Comments

[wake_the_dragon]

Well, that ended kind of predictably.

[espanolbot]

Not really, most people were huffing about how horrible the Joker's plan would be and how at least one character would die... Only for the Joker to effectively yell PSYCHE! And run off.

[nate_abril96]

Yeah, the Joker can't really kill any of them, considering that they all have their own titles, and he obviously isn't going to kill Alfred; as DC wouldn't let Snyder do it because... hey HE'S FREAKING ALFRED!!!

[md84]

So Batman gets under Joker's skin by using his own trick against him -- claiming that he's always known his adversary's true identity. Except Joker takes it way worse, maybe because he himself doesn't know it anymore.

So are the rest of the Batfamily avoiding Bruce because they are still mad that he kept a secret from them, or are they avoiding him because Joker's claim that they hold Batman back actually got to them?

[espanolbot]

Might be that they feel that simply by associating with him, they're harmed by the bad things Bruce attracts towards himself like a kind of doom magnet.

Not shunning him because they BLAME him for what the Joker did to them, but it caused them to re-evaluate just how they and he interact with each other?

[darkknightjrk]

Looking back at it, there is something kind-of poetic about Batman using Joker's own mind-games against him, even if in that first read-through I just wanted Bruce to whack on Joker's skull with that crowbar until it cracked like a walnut.

As for the family--I'd say a little bit of both. I think most people after going what they went through would want to be alone for a while.

[espanolbot]

Yay for everyone being more or less okay. :) Hopefully the Joker'll get some kind of regular (for him) face when he comes back, what with the face-mask seemingly looking like it's more than a little worse-for-wear by the end of this storyline.

The final fight will probably flow a bit better in the actual issue, Bruce's logic there actually makes sense (vacuums of evil ARE a thing that exists in the DCU, such as the one caused by the deportation plot in Salvation Run), the overall plot being the Joker seemingly being one huge, gross practical joke on Batman does actually fit with both him in terms of character.

Kudos to Snyder.

[mrstatham]

I think it basically being one big prank from Joker - is a far bolder move than having Joker butcher someone else for the sake of getting to Batman. The revelation about the playing card also makes more sense, because Joker wouldn't resist a chance to get a rise out of Batman if he did actually know about the cave. As it is, they can still get some mileage out of the event because of how traumatic it would have been for all involved, but I still think it's a smarter way to handle something than say, the prospective threat of Alfred being fed to everyone at the dinner table, as the previews for this issue indicated.

I just wish Capullo stuck Joker in the tux he had for the cover to this issue; The purple suit making a welcome return is nice, but that cover is just far too well done.

[darkknightjrk]

Yeah--knowing their luck, as soon as Batman actually snapped Joker's neck like a twig, a Black Lantern ring would probably fall into his lap and start ripping out people's hearts all over Gotham.

[auggie18]

...so, that was it? Really?

[captainbellman]

The whole thing reminds me of when I still (for who knows what horrible reason) used to post to the Newsarama boards...some guy got a whole bunch of people angried up for whatever reason and then, when cornered, went "Ta-Da! You've all participated into a psychological study on angry reactions on the internet" and scarpered.

It really seems like an ending that was written because they couldn't think of a decent ending. Or anything that justified the build-up to "What horrific thing will the Joker DOOO?!?". A cop-out, if you will.

[captainbellman]

Welp, that was a colossal waste of time which achieved basically nothing. I'd look forward to a capable writer bringing back the actual Joker if, y'know, there were any.

[md84]

It's basically a big joke on the readers. Reminds me a bit of that episode of BTAS with the Joker holding a bunch of public figures hostage and threatening to blow up a train just to have the chance to throw a pie (an ordinary one even) in Batman's face. Except that episode only took about 24 minutes out of my life.

[captainbellman]

Apart from the other completely uninteresting "twists" to the Joker's character that this "story" has provided, this idea that he's disturbed by the idea of learning his true identity is the cherry on the bad-idea cake. Any version of the Joker I know would just listen, then reply "Who cares about the setup? It's all in the punchline."

What could the Joker possibly have to lose by anyone telling him his real name? He's not that guy any longer, he's the Joker.

(Also: it was very stupid to steal the "That's not funny" line from "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" for that one anticlimactic moment. That's the sort of line that needs to have some weight behind it, not just "Oh no, I hate getting wet.")

[md84]

YMMV. I think Joker would be pretty upset by Batman reminding him that he's just a man like any other with a name and a past.

"What could the Joker possibly have to lose by anyone telling him his real name? He's not that guy any longer, he's the Joker. "

And that's why I think telling him his name would hurt him more than anything else. It's not just that he's not that man anymore, he doesn't WANT to be that man anymore.

[chrisdv]

Fail to see how this worth effectively throwing out every single issue of Nightwing since the reboot

I'm not mad, just disappointed.

[starwolf_oakley]

So "The Family" is mad at Bruce. Again. Because he didn't tell them about a Joker card that he himself check out?

[mrstatham]

The thing is, if he knew who Joker was - and that proves to be a clearly valuable weapon here - he should be telling them that sort of thing because how much trouble would that have saved everyone? There's more going on than the card, to me.

[md84]

Bruce's fear that killing Joker would only cause Gotham to replace him with a worse threat is pretty telling. It implies that Bruce's true enemy isn't any member of his rogues' gallery, but Gotham city itself.

[icon_uk]

And is also pretty bloody awful as an idea. It suggests that Batman obsesses over Joker to the extent the Joker obsesses over him, and whilst important, I don't think he is.

Well, now for the REAL question that needs answering...

[chrisdv]

What is Tim listening to with his headphones?

My vote is for Hannah Montana. =)

Re: Well, now for the REAL question that needs answering...

[auggie18]

Nope, Adam Warrock.


The Hank Pym song.


On repeat.


FOREVER.

[jmacq1]

So do Dick and Damian at least show up to the gathering? Or does everyone bow out?

[akodo_rokku]

Everyone bows out.

[nyadnar17]

Batman won't kill Joker because he is scared to? Wow thats about the worse reason I have ever seen put forward.

[espanolbot]

Better the devil you know, and all that.

[silverhammerman]

Well I didn't love it but it could have been worse. I was glad they didn't actually kill Alfred off and the Batfamily wasn't hurt/mutilated/killed/whatever, but I don't love the fact that the Joker managed to fracture their trust, and while I prefer to think that Bruce was bluffing about knowing who the Joker is to mess with him, I still didn't love that bit. I mean, if we get a definitive origin I think that'd make two villains, don't forget Mister Freeze, that Snyder mucked with. I just hope the Joker gets his damn face back soon, the mask look works well enough when Capullo is drawing it but in general it's just goofily XTREME.
So on the fence about this series, the art stands out from the overly generic stuff that a lot of DC title have right now and it's satisfying when stuff actually happens and Batman does Batman stuff, but I dunno. The stories so far have amounted to several months of Batman getting curbstomped followed by a pair of unsatisfying conclusions, and the cliffhangers at the end of each issue always make feel like I've been left in the lurch. I get that single issues aren't consider in vogue right now, but I would appreciate some degree of closure. I like the Riddler though, so I guess I'll wait to see if Snyder can do something interesting with him. I hope he doesn't wind up just being a boring Saw-style murderer though, I'd be more than happy to just see RIddler pull off some heists. Something to break up the relentless doom and gloom of this series.

[mrstatham]

Given Snyder's going to be folding Harper Row back into the proceedings - and the girl's good with tech - I'm getting the feeling that whatever the Riddler might be up to could have something to do with that.

[stillanerd]

Overall, I didn't think Death of the Family was a bad story. However, with regards to this particular issue serving as a conclusion to the story? I am in total agreement with those who describe this issue as a massively disappointing let-down with no real pay off whatsoever. And this is coming from someone who regards Scott Snyder as one of today's best comic book writers.

Sure, Greg Capullo's art was fantastic as always, and I thought the beginning of the issue was especially intense. But if you really take a closer look, all this is story did was recycle and reuse aspects of the Batman and Joker dynamic that were already there, and whatever additions Snyder attempted to add were not only needlessly bungled, but, IMO, missed the point.

For example, we finally learn why the Joker had his face removed just so he could wear it like a mask--"So [Batman] can see that he smiles on the inside as he does on the outside" i.e. that he doesn't hide who he really is. Except we readers already knew this on the simple basis that the Joker looking like a creepy clown was not a disguise, that this is what makes him terrifying, and his wearing a "mask" made of his own flesh actually undermines the very point the Joker makes.

Second, the Joker challenging Batman over why he doesn't just kill him, saying his reasons for not doing so are bullcrap, with Snyder suggesting this is partly true when Bruce tells Alfred that if he does kill the Joker that someone worse will take his place. This is of particular annoyance to me because we already know the answer to the question of "Why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker?" (and not just because of the conventions of serialized fiction). Anyone who has read Alan Moore's The Killing Joke and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, or have seen Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight have had this question answered: The Joker believes that anyone, when properly pushed, is capable of losing control and abandoning their morals, rules and principles, thus essentially saying their life is a "joke." Batman, however, refuses to lose control, standing by his code to never commit murder no matter what. Because Batman knows full well that if he consciously takes a person's life, including the Joker's own life, then it "proves" that the Joker was "right all along." And guess what? The Joker also knows this. That's why he "loves" Batman because he sees him as a challenge and, although he's insane, wouldn't mistake Batman's refusal to kill him as a sign of "love."

Then there's the point about how even though the Joker knows Batman is really Bruce Wayne, he doesn't really care because he knows Batman is who Bruce really is--again something we already figured out beforehand, especially if one has read Grant Morrison's Batman R.I.P. Except Snyder adds the utterly ridiculous revelation in that Bruce willingly revealed himself as Batman to the Joker at Arkham Asylum years ago, which just makes Bruce out be a overly-confident moron. Same with the revelation that the Joker's biggest fear is that Batman has figured out his real name, which completely contradicts previous depictions that the Joker doesn't really care about his own past or his real name. After all, if the Joker doesn't care about who Batman really is, why should he care if Batman really knows?

As for the resolution to the story? The Joker "dies" from falling from a great height even though we never actually see the body and Batman doesn't bother to go down and investigate the bottom of the chasm to see if the Joker is really dead? How convenient! Oh, the Bat Family is bitter at Bruce for keeping such a crucial secret from them when he should've trusted them and told them what it was beforehand? Just like every other conclusion to virtually every major Batman event in last two decades? That's the real reason why the ending is disappointing and why people are saying "nothing happened. Because what was sold as a Joker story to end all Joker stories is nothing but an overrated, over-hyped cliché.

[aeka]

This pretty much sums up all of the issues I had with this finale. The confrontation between Batman and the Joker in particular was the most anticlimactic way Snyder could've ended this story, especially given all the build-up that led to this point. I was at least expecting something BIG to happen here, if no one turned up dead.

I would honestly feel better about "the joke being on me" if I didn't pay $3.99 for it.

[cyberghostface]

So besides Joker wearing his own face, what in this story is going to be remembered or referenced a year from now?

[captainbellman]

This story is going to be remembered or referenced? What, like how Batman R.I.P. gets constantly mentioned by all of the Bat-writers who aren't Morrison?

[icon_uk]

I'll echo the notion that there is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of the story, but the execution has been woeful, and it becoming the basis of such a huge crossover is vastly depressing.

The Batgirl and various Robin-esque titles have spend TWO BLOODY ISSUES EACH on this build up, with the Joker is God-mode throughout so they all seem to hammering him in the face with him never noticing ANY of it. And then beingg

And at the end of each of these 1/6 of their entire annual output of issues, he drags them away to be some sort of key factor in his final plan. But instead they appear in a few pages for a rather dull "joke" and gthen act like the same sort of idiot Batman has been for this story (Honestly, you see something you don't know the origin of in a Joker base, you don't hang around to look in case something happens.

For some reason it made me think of "Dreadful birthday Dear joker", where the Joker kidnaps Jim Gordon, Robin and Alfred in the space of about six pages, does so in a very Joker-ish fashion (and no pointless shock deaths) and then uses his hostages to make a point, and STILL has room for a more dramatic, exciting, thematically interesting confrontation between Joker and Batman in it's mere 23 pages than this overblown waffle-fest.

And none of the "kids" joining Bruce as he chases down the Joker makes no sense at all, the whole point of this story should have been to show the family serve a valid function for him as his partner, and none of them demonstrate this at all, because they're never given a chance too.

The Joker mentions that he'd spent hours "Whispering in their ears" about what Batman really though about them. THAT is creepy, THAT is a sinster idea, and THAT I would want to hear, but we get no clue as to what he said to ANY of them. So unless there's any follow up, the only chance

Based on what I've seen the Nightwing tie in seemed to be the only one to have anything like a theme in it's own right, but destroyed the entire, and basically only, subplot that has been building up in Nightwing since the relaunch.

And I echo the general comment that (Joker's reaction to his real name to one side) the final confrontation was just... awful, and on a par with Nightwing's reaction to Bruce's copter going down at the end of RIP. Dick would NEVER presume that meant Bruce was dead, he'd be wondering if Bruce was going to be back in the Batcave before he made it himself.

The isotope thing is either a lead in to something else or just yet more pointlessness. To end a story about the importance of Batman's family to him, with his family not appearing to be traumatised (which in some cases they SHOULD be) so nuch as just... not terribly nterested in talking to him is pretty inexplicable, or bad communication between writer and artist in terms of describing the requiaite emotion.

One final comment is based on a note I read on tumblr and agree with: This story loses most of it's impact BECAUSE of the DCnU, where Batman's relationships with his Robin's has been vaguely described or glossed over, and timeframes ate all over the place.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, I was pretty let down that even though Batman said his allies made him stronger but we didn't actually get to see that. As cheesy as it would have been I would have liked to see an old fashioned team moment with everyone contributing to Joker's defeat and then Batman delivering the final punch, just something that would show how they make him stronger instead of just telling us.
I also agree with you about how the reboot saps this story of it's significance. It seems like Damian's the only one who's had his relationship with Bruce be explored all that much since the reboot and even that's mostly been outside of this. I just didn't get a good sense from this series that there was much of a bond between Batman and his cohorts for Joker to destroy in the first place.

[team_mummy]

Ugh. I can't get into this. It reeks of some fanboy sitting at his computer thinking he's sooo great at dissecting the Joker/Batman relationship. His scripts are full of this aura of audacity, like he thinks he's penning the ultimate Batman/Joker mind game. I don't begrudge anyone who enjoyed this, but to me it feels like Snyder's taken every message board discussion about "Why Batman won't kill/kill Joker" and made it into poorly planned comic script. It feels like pointless re-hashing of stuff we've seen before in Dark Knight Returns and the Dark Knight movie and games and movies. That's it? He planted the "Ha" element on everyone to irk Batman? That's cute, I guess. Capullo's art rocks but I now get why Capullo didn't like the guy at first. Anyway, sorry but I hate whatever the hell this story thought it was achieving, or the point it was trying to make. Batman and Joker are "destined to do this forever" but this read like an icky fanboy got hired to write Batman. I like the idea of Joker invading the cave though just to show Batman he could get in if he tried.

[darkknightjrk]

"That's it? He planted the "Ha" element on everyone to irk Batman? That's cute, I guess."

I get the feeling that that "harmless radioactive isotope" is going to bite them all in the ass sooner or later...