Fantastic Four #5 - "The Fall of the Fantastic Four, Part Five"

[arbre_rieur]

"I'm told by many people that it's dark, but if you read it, it isn't that dark." -- James Robinson



In case you want to compare, here's the actual day in question, from way back in the very first FANTASTIC FOUR #1:





The prosecutor asks Reed about the Ultimate Nullifier:













The Future Foundation children get placed in the care of S.H.I.E.L.D.:

Comments

[drtechnobabel]

While Toliver is a skeeze-bag, I have to admit that he has a point: The Fantastic Four tend to rack up a lot of collateral damage, even for superheroes. And Reed isn't the most responsible with his quite frankly dangerous technology. But considering that same tech has been responsible for saving the world more often than not, I would think that they would have some better character witnesses than that.

On a side note, I did like how Jim handled things with the kids.Just because they have superpowers and superintelligence doesn't mean you treat them like criminals for no good reason. Except for Bentley, since he almost seems to WANT to be treated that way.

[tugrul]

I really like Bentley's crazy hair. :) A must-have for every aspiring mad master-villain. It'd be fun if a creative team wrote some place specialized in care for master-villains. Where they get pampered and browse through a catalogue and use products like American Crew Crazy Clay and Tigi MadHead.

I've never cared much for the character Ben Grimm, sure laughed often at his jokes, but more often than not, don't find his snark charming. I think it's a anger issues and property damage that's always bugged me. I like the scenes where he's a big softy and vulnerable.

[terrykun]

Either (A) he really believes the case he's making, (B), this is just a ladder-climbing thing for him, or (C) there's some SINISTER AGENDA backing him.

Overlap between the above also possible.


The problem is that most of the people who could be called as prominent enough character witnesses would be other superheroes, who I'm sure Tolliver would be just as ready to question about their own incidents of collateral damage, citing credibility of the witnesses. :\

[skjam]

Prosecution always goes first at trials, and Jennifer Walters may have been cross-examining which we don't see in these pages. They nay not have gotten to the defense part of the trial yet.

[kamino_neko]

Good to know that there's someone at SHIELD who has half a clue.

Also...Alex's costume is terrible. Granted most of them have been....

[icon_uk]

The original Power Pack costumes were AWESOME!!

And with a bit of modification to the boots for being more grown up, they'd be great costumes now.

[kamino_neko]

Yeah, his original costume is the reason I said 'most' instead of all. That was pretty stylin'.

[icon_uk]

Whew! Well, that's all right then. I remembered the original, the jacket with the four symbols when he "borrowed" the others powers as Powerpax... or whatever name he used in New Warriors, and didn't remember any others, so I might have missed a sartorial nightmare or two.

[kamino_neko]

There's also this one (which would be pretty 'meh' if it got rid of the business around the collar and cuffs, but is just the wrong side of the ugly line as is) and this one. Not a whole lot of costumes, but enough to have a pattern of 'ugh'.

[icon_uk]

That first image is his original costume, the checkerboard effect is just him using his powers, and it's always manifested like that whatever he's wearing.

The other costume I was thinking of was when he was Powerhouse in the New Warriors though his siblings insisted he give them their powers back, leaving him with his normal Gee powers again.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Wait, I thought Power Pack were all grown up in this continuity. No?

[icon_uk]

Well, since they're saying they can't hold him, he's probably 18 (Or 16, I don't know how that works in the US) presumably he and Julie are, but Katie and Jack are still minors last I saw.

[kamino_neko]

When I was looking up the images I linked you above, I caught reference of his being 19, so, yeah. That also fits generally with Julie's appearance in Loners (I haven't seen her in Avengers Academy, but I assume that wouldn't have aged her significantly up or down.)

[goattoucher]

He's scarcely taller than the pre-teen kids here, and Jim Hammond towers over him. I'm betting that whoever is writing this forgot about Alex being an apprentice to Reed (as well as being much taller), and his sister having mature relationships and a career of sorts, and de-aged him to original PP age, or maybe a touch older.

If he were 18, his parents would not have to be not have to be consulted.

[icon_uk]

He's always been described as being small for his age, but agreed, they don't realise he's 19.

[arbre_rieur]

It should be noted that those pages were drawn by Power Pack co-creator June Brigman.

[icon_uk]

Interesting thanks, and nice to see her back on a title!

[lieut_kettch]

Julie is around 16 or 17, but became an emancipated minor when she moved to L.A. to pursue and acting career. At least around the time she was in Excelsior/The Loners.

[thanekos]

" .. This assignment's clearly not for you. "
" .. Sir? "
" You heard me. "
" .. B-but.. no! No, please- do you know how hard I worked to get a transfer here? I've been waiting for the chance to point guns at superpowered children! Don't take that away from me, please! "

[nyadnar17]

I really loved that part

[scelestus]

The lawyer's points are all valid, far as I'm concerned. If I was a citizen in the Marvel universe I totally would've been on board with the SHRA, solely for the reasons he listed.

[nyadnar17]

If I could actually trust the Marvel Universe's government not to immediately start doing shady thing with and to their new superpowered army I would have been pro-SHRA as well. But you can't. Department H, Weapon Plus, the DoD,etc. The moment any Marvel government gets any legal leverage over a superpowered individual its all dissection tables and storm trooper brainwashing.

Shame really.

[icon_uk]

Never mind that SOMEONE sanctioned Norman Osborn being put in charge of anything more complex than a sandcastle.

[skjam]

Yeah. The SHRA was being put up by the same administration that gave us the Red Skull as Secretary of Defense. Not trusting the government on that one.

[goattoucher]

I'm just wondering why the smartest man in the world is not better able to see where the prosecutor is leading him and justify his actions a little better.

[icon_uk]

Well a decent prosecutor won't give him the chance to rebut, and Reed isn't always the most... emotionally intuitive person.

[thezmage]

I've never liked these "let's refer back to crazy things that happened in the silver age where it wasn't taken seriously and treat them the way we would today" things.

[ensiform]

Really? I do. Stan Lee must be held accountable for his terrible, contradictory, histrionic writing.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

I like it because it reminds me of The Incredibles.

[coldfury]

Yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of suddenly piercing the suspension of disbelief by the villains.

"Sure, we've asked you to ignore things that would be clearly out of line in reality, but now the VILLAIN is asking you to pay attention to how all those things are ACTUALLY BAD. MUAHAHHA. I write comics so edgy"

Sigh.

[goattoucher]

Yeah. Not a fan of this. If we're going to play realistic, half the super villains would have been executed by now.

Though I suppose that would keep Bendis et. al. from killing them off for patented SHOCKING MOMENTS (tm), so it might not be a bad idea.

[fungo_squiggly]

Meanwhile, in the DCU...

"And what did Superman SAY, Mr. Olsen, when you begged him to allow you and Aquaman to share the water, as the two of you lay dying of thirst?"

"He said, 'Sorry, Jimmy! The ground rules allow only ONE survivor! YOU or AQUAMAN!"

*shocked murmuring from the courtroom*

[terrykun]

I must disperse this to social media. <3

[halloweenjack]

Granted that Civil War was highly problematic, to put it mildly, but did we really need an FF-specific redo this soon?

[shadowpsykie]

okay. i don't mean this to sound cynical... but tell me... why should i care?

at this point, the "superhero on trial" feels ridiculous now... when i saw this scans all i saw were word bubbles among word bubbles" and that is an *almost* instant turn off. coupled with the whole idea that i am tired of the superhero on trial motif especially since this doesn't seem to do anything new... it seems ver contrived. "oh you have caused massive property damage... i see the point about Ben. but the rest of it?

if they were doing something interesting with the trial like bringining up valid points, i would be okay about it. but it just seems like they are being petty.....

so i ask again... why should i care about this?

[burkeonthesly]

Bentley-23? What happened to Bentley 13?

Did an unnoticed crisis fuse Bentley 13 and X-23?

[cainofdreaming]

If someone in Marvel New York gets an heart attack just from being bumped into by someone invisible isn't he a pretty much lost cause anyway? With those kind of nerves he'd be in the intensive care about twelve times a day.

[writeofway]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting really damn tired of deconstructionism in superhero comics.

[jlroberson]

Please let this mean Nefaria is gone for a while. Stupid costume and a character you really can't do a lot with. Even that Moon Knight story--you could have plugged any number of mob-related villains into that. These days it's mostly: he appears, blusters a lot, and gets taken down very swiftly, the end.