ILLUMINATI: T'Challa was right.

[starwolf_oakley]

Here are some pages from the 2006 Illuminati One-Shot.





At first glance, the Illuminati didn't seem like a bad idea. Members of the major teams get together and trade notes. Not a bad thing. Then we find out nobody else knows about this little group and what they do. And THEN we find out the Illuminati can't do anything right.



This annoys me. Now, Maria Hill doesn't *say* these people and dog are dead. But even injured, it is a big deal.
Maybe she's lying to see if Iron Man and Co. will do something to "get rid" of the Hulk. (A theory I think a fanfiction story once used, to be honest.)



Oh, well, Spider-Man won't kill Osborn because... reasons. I remember when only the Punisher and Wolverine would kill people. Then things got more morally flexible in the Marvel Universe. They are still strong with Spider-Man not killing anything. Whatculture.com has ten times Spider-Man killed someone, though. The only ones who came back were Gog and Morlun, IIRC.



Xavier (who is absent) said that if Bruce Banner could kill himself, he would have done so years ago.
Does Bendis hate the Hulk or something? Is the Hulk a part of the Marvel Universe no one really understands?

http://whatculture.com/comics/10-things-marvel-wants-you-to-forget-about-the-hulk.php/11

Aside from Namor, all the others vote yes on shooting the Hulk into space. Namor starts threatening, and Tony says they are all warriors and all willing to fight for what they believe in.

NAMOR: You're a warrior. I'm a king.
TONY: Not up here you're not.

Namor and Tony fight underwater, with Namor ripping off Tony's helmet.



Yes, this kept the Hulk out of CIVIL WAR and PLANET HULK was great. Still, it makes the Illuminati look like they can't do anything right. And then the ILLUMINATI miniseries made it *clear* they can't do anything right. Then Steve Rogers and Hank McCoy joined the ILLUMINATI and again, nothing right.

Comments

[deh_tommy]

I thought that Captain America WAS on the team, but was kicked off (I don't know why, though)?

[obsidianwolf]

Hickman needed a morally uncompromising hero for his dc rip off so Cap was included for the start of things.

He started out in Character Objecting to even considering genocide.

Then got derailed into obsessed with bringing the illuminati to justice guy instead of staying in character and trying to find folks who could fix the actual problem (and then bringing the illuminati to justice) cause they needed secret wars to happen.

[mrstatham]

The worst part is that Tony and Steve's pointless dick-swinging has proven to be largely inconsequential in Secret Wars because it's quickly become yet another 'Dr Doom gets supreme power, fucks up eventually' plot. That's just pretty insulting, that Hickman fucked those two and the other Illuminati members up so severely for what is basically a placeholder.

[obsidianwolf]

Yep salvaging any of the Illuminati is going to be damn hard now and it didn't amount to anything. In fact judging by the post secret wars solicitations this whole mess isn't going to really amount to anything except for an excuse for a few AU versions to suddenly be in 616 and a minor time skip. Everything else seems to be staying intact so we aren't even getting much of a reboot for all this shit.

[deh_tommy]

No, I mean I genuinely don't know why Steve was mind-wiped and exiled from the Illuminati since I didn't read any of their stories and didn't even know they existed until Original Sin. What was the in-story reason? Was Jonathan Hickman the person who wrote the former's mind-erasure?

Also, considering Steve was Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., who's to say he didn't have any people working on ways to stop or survive the Incursions while he brought the Illuminati to justice? What did MARVEL rip off from DC, may I ask?

[obsidianwolf]

Hickman had steve force his way into the Iluminati to force them to be held accountable.

AS soon as the incursion business started the Illuminati were willing to consider genocide as a solution Steve refused to even consider it so Tony and company violated his mind and made him forget all about the incursions and the Illuminati.

[deh_tommy]

Right, thank you for explaining this to me. Was his mind-wipe from a story Jonathan Hickman penned, or did he expand upon the idea during Original Sin?

[obsidianwolf]

All Hickman.

[mrstatham]

That was the second incarnation of the Illuminati, and arguably way more of a clusterfuck than even this iteration.

And he wasn't kicked off. Tony and Co mind-raped him into forgetting he'd ever been part of the group.

[starwolf_oakley]

Yes, it was a What must we do vs. What should we do vs. What can we do.

Steve seemed to say "We can't destroy another world" vs the others saying "This is the only thing we can do."

And the last New Avengers,Hickman issue said apparently Tony knew all along there was nothing stopping the incursio2nd.