ILLUMINATI: T'Challa was right.

[starwolf_oakley]

Here are some pages from the 2006 Illuminati One-Shot.





At first glance, the Illuminati didn't seem like a bad idea. Members of the major teams get together and trade notes. Not a bad thing. Then we find out nobody else knows about this little group and what they do. And THEN we find out the Illuminati can't do anything right.



This annoys me. Now, Maria Hill doesn't *say* these people and dog are dead. But even injured, it is a big deal.
Maybe she's lying to see if Iron Man and Co. will do something to "get rid" of the Hulk. (A theory I think a fanfiction story once used, to be honest.)



Oh, well, Spider-Man won't kill Osborn because... reasons. I remember when only the Punisher and Wolverine would kill people. Then things got more morally flexible in the Marvel Universe. They are still strong with Spider-Man not killing anything. Whatculture.com has ten times Spider-Man killed someone, though. The only ones who came back were Gog and Morlun, IIRC.



Xavier (who is absent) said that if Bruce Banner could kill himself, he would have done so years ago.
Does Bendis hate the Hulk or something? Is the Hulk a part of the Marvel Universe no one really understands?

http://whatculture.com/comics/10-things-marvel-wants-you-to-forget-about-the-hulk.php/11

Aside from Namor, all the others vote yes on shooting the Hulk into space. Namor starts threatening, and Tony says they are all warriors and all willing to fight for what they believe in.

NAMOR: You're a warrior. I'm a king.
TONY: Not up here you're not.

Namor and Tony fight underwater, with Namor ripping off Tony's helmet.



Yes, this kept the Hulk out of CIVIL WAR and PLANET HULK was great. Still, it makes the Illuminati look like they can't do anything right. And then the ILLUMINATI miniseries made it *clear* they can't do anything right. Then Steve Rogers and Hank McCoy joined the ILLUMINATI and again, nothing right.

Comments

[lordultimus]

T'Challa tells the Illuminati that they are going about this in the worst way possible.

Oh ho, the irony.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, that's gotta be Bendis, who's not much for logical thought when he wants to make a point.

Maria Hill, AKA LAW ENFORCEMENT: It's Spider-Man's fault that duly appointed and publicly funded law enforcement officials cannot contain Norman Osborn, as is their sworn duty. It's the fault of a private citizen, who should circumvent due process and kill the man.

[captainbellman]

The otherwise mediocre "Startling Stories: BANNER" had a moment where Bruce tries to kill himself and the Hulk defiantly spits out the bullet. Made it into the Avengers movie, kind-of.

[q99]

Huh, a funny thing: Norman actually died in combat with Spider-man once. It didn't take.

And does Spider-man really have that many opportunities to kill him...? And didn't he give Norman to the justice system, which could've decided to kill him but didn't?

[beyondthefringe]

In theory, the Illuminati is not just a good idea, it's an essential idea.
Of course the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four should trade notes. Someone needs to speak for the mutants, you need an expert on magic, you need an expert on science, and yeah, it doesn't hurt to have people like Namor, T'Challa, and Black Bolt to represent powerful nations/sub-sets of superhuman races.

But it should have been an above-board council, not a secretive cabal. There should have been some form of accountability and continuity--someone retires, dies, goes away, you get a replacement. And when there's a crisis, you don't set these schmucks, you get an appropriate team to handle it.

The problem is that you had too many kings, all jockeying for position, with clashing egos, and no one to rein them in diplomatically. And when things went sour, no one was able to stop it before it went pear-shaped and nations went to war.

The best way for this to work would have been to include Captain America for tactics, leadership, diplomacy, and mutual respect... and Spider-Man for moral compass and because he's one of the very few heroes who A) works with EVERYONE and B) Is friendly with but not beholden to any one team most of the time... Oh, and maybe actually have a female member like Sue Storm or Janet van Dyne to offset the testosterone. (I'd have suggested Carol, but she's been off-grid a lot during her career.) Maybe Jen Walters, for her legal expertise and common sense.

In fact, yes. Here's the set-up I see as being best for a saner version of this group:
Xavier to represent X-Men and mutants in general. Backup: Storm.
Reed for the FF and for Science! Backup: Sue.
Tony for the Avengers and again, Science! Backup: Janet.
Steve for the Avengers and general cat-herding. Backup: Sam Wilson?
Stephen Strange for magic. Backup: Shaman (or Brother Voodoo)
Black Bolt for the Inhumans. Backup: Medusa
Namor for the Atlanteans and oceanic expertise. Backup: Namora?
T'Challa for Wakanda, etc. Backup: Um... Shuri?
Peter Parker for unaligned heroes, moral compass, etc. Backup: Ben Grimm.
Jennifer Walters for legal expertise. Backup: Matt Murdock.

As needed:
Carol or Rhodey to act as military liaisons.
Thor or Hercules to act as mythological liaisons.
Natasha or Bobbi to act as SHIELD liaisons.

This would not be a Secret Avengers/Illuminati set-up. no. But I'd sure have fun reading it. :)

[locuatico]

Spider-man doesn't kill Osborn because then JJJ would have a feast with the event.
i hate the "when it becomes their fault?" thinking process. when it becomes spidey's fault? a better question would be when it becomes THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT to be unable to contain/kill him? when it becomes Shield's fault for not doing anything?

nah, it's the fault of the guy who already has a hard time trying to keep the city on his side for more than one day, which turn against him the second he looks like he did something anti-heroic.

[siliconshaman]

Geeze, it's not often I think T'Challa and Namour are right...

Fine, you want to take out the Hulk? Well, this is the Marvel universe, where time travel happens all the time. Go back to the day before the gamma bomb incident, and shoot Bruce Banner, before he becomes the Hulk.

and then probably watch while someone else ret-conns the whole thing, but hey..

[mr_cyn1cal]

Ah, the Illuminati. So great, and their marvelous track record of success after success!

The guys who ended the threat of the Hulk by tossing him off planet!
The team that prevented the Skrulls from invading with a pre-emptive strike!
The heroes who championed the Registration Act and the Utopia it created!
The stalwart guardians of the Infinity Gems and later, the jailors of Thanos!
The group that reformed Noh-Varr and the Beyonder!
And of course, there is all their stellar work dealing with the Incursions...

At this point I wouldn't trust this crew to take care of an abandoned mall parking lot. For a group of geniuses, they seem not to understand the concepts of things like "Blowback", or "Unintended consequnces", despite the fact that those very concepts are BAKED INTO THEIR ORIGIN STORIES (Reed, Tony, I'm looking at you).

At this point, here's my picks for the new Illumaniti - D-Man, Molly Hayes, Deadpool, Beak, and three six year old children selected at random - and they would STILL have better results than these chuckleheads.

Yeah, a secret group of the world's elite trying to control the world - that can only end well.

MORONS.