Sam Wilson, Captain America #2

[history79]

CBR: Is the conflict between Sam and Steve almost like "Civil War?" Will they have two different ideological points of view? And will the public and the rest of the Marvel Universe be divided on where they stand?

Nick Spencer: Yeah, the public will be very divided. I'm a huge "Civil War" fan. I'm a great admirer of that story. I think it's still kind of top of the mountain in terms of event stories. This is a very different kind of conflict though.

Making sure that it's very easy for readers to see both sides of this argument was a major priority for me. The one thing I would say to all the Steve fans out there, of which I am one, is that I was not about to put him in a position where I found his viewpoint unsympathetic just because the star of the book is Sam. I think that Steve has a really strong argument here as does Sam.

Comments

[cainofdreaming]

So, did Cap do time or even go through court proceedings, or was the whole thing just swept under the rug after he got resurrected? Because if it was then this whole scene seems kinda hypocritical.

[aperturedreams]

He was arrested and about to go through court proceedings before he "died". Resurrection is pretty murky legally.

[cainofdreaming]

Was every criminal who died during Infinity Gauntlet given a free pass? Or all those who die outside of events. I doubt it.

[locuatico]

To be fair, he also came back with the whole Osborn in charge thingy and blah, blah blah.

[aperturedreams]

Yeah the whole thing is kinda messed up if you think about it too much

[freezer]

"I'm a huge "Civil War" fan. I'm a great admirer of that story. "

Well... That's disappointing.

[q99]

Though this one has both sides having better points.

Steve's side is, "Trial where I'll testify on his behalf, because he did break laws to blow the whistle, and caused some side-damage." Sam's is "protect the whistleblower, who saved us from something big."

[jlbarnett]

who says? In DC superheroes willing the world intact is a big help to saving the day

[freezer]

This is ripped straight from the headlines, with the accompanying legal question. Yes Edward Snowden The Whisperer was a whistleblower, who revealed clear illegal activities. He also revealed a bunch of other stuff with nothing to do with the cause he espoused. The questions are which side holds greater sway and would it even factor in when the government The Whisperer embarrassed would be directly responsible for how he's prosecuted.

Hell, I have a bigger issue with the Get Out of Jail Free card Sam gets.

I'm also leery of the fallout from this. The breaking of trust between Sam and Steve could give great dramatic weight to future stories, but could easily devolve into "Liberal Sam vs. Conservative Steve" strawmaning at each other.

[silverhammerman]

When it comes to big Two creators I never trust the "opinions" they offer on Big Two books, because it's most likely a PR line. Even if Spencer thought Civil War was hot garbage there's basically no way he'd say as much in an interview while still working for Marvel.

[deh_tommy]

Why, is Civil war objectively bad, and anyone whom likes the story wrong?

[freezer]

Yes.

[filthysize]

That opinion is disappointing.

[rainspirit]

Comic book faaaaans!

[mrstatham]

Oh good, so we're back to painting Maria Hill as the jerkass incarnation of 'the man', completely flanderising her like Millar, rather than giving her any real depth like Bendis and Fraction. Joy.

[jlbarnett]

actually, I think she's pretty reasonable

[mrstatham]

But we've still got Steve and Sam talking about her like she's entirely untrustworthy and has never done anything good. Frankly, Steve himself should be subject to more scrutiny given the run-up to Secret Wars.

[shadur]

Given their *spectacularly* bad falling out in the hideously badly written scene that sparked Civil War, I think Cap has more than earned the right to not trust Mariah Hill any further than Charles Xavier could throw her.

[steverodgers5]

Yeah, I think it's interesting that the MCU take isn't even going to include Maria Hill in the upcoming Civil War film. I guess they too found that scene to be impossible to believably adapt ..

[shadur]

Also, they already *did* the "Steve Rogers fights his way through a SHIELD takedown team and breaks out of a heavily secured facility, becoming a fugitive from SHIELD" scene in the previous movie.

True..

[steverodgers5]

LOL! Good point..

[silverhammerman]

I feel like there are some unfortunate gender politics inherent to the way that it always seems like Maria Hill who winds up being head of SHIELD whenever the storyline necessitates SHIELD being morally ambiguous or bureaucratic. Meanwhile fucking Nick Fury just gets to roll through every once in a while like everyone's fun spy grandpa.

[starwolf_oakley]

To a degree, it could be Maria Hill wants to be harder so she will be taken seriously despite being (a) a woman and (b) not Nick Fury.

SHIELD being morally ambiguous or bureaucratic was common enough in the late 70s and 80s. It was often written off with "Fury doesn't know about this."

[mrstatham]

But Fury himself was consistently involved in dodgy and underhanded shit - often to a greater extent than Hill, whose greatest crime was under Millar, having her open fire on Captain America when he declined to enforce a law that hadn't even been made law yet; it just seems like - as suggested - there's some dubious gender politics going on, both in-universe and in the fanbase at times, in terms of how Hill is characterised when realistically she's been shackled to a massively less consistent portrayal of SHIELD thanks to Marvel not knowing what the hell they want SHIELD to be, their operational capacity/remit/etc, and so on.

[walkingthroughforest]

I've been surprised with how great this series has been so far. These pages and the cherry picked quote to incite rage don't do it justice.

[sagrada]

Eh, nothing in fiction lives up to even its own basic premise. Some stuff gets close, but it's not like this is really hiding that much light under a bushel.

[tigerkaya]

Nope, don't like the derailment of Steve's character being this naive with the U.S. courts law just to prop up Sam as the new Cap.

[jlbarnett]

Is it naive? Steve's in charge of SHIELD. If he arrests him then he's going to see to it he's going to get a fair trial

[beyondthefringe]

He's not in charge. According to this issue, he's the "new chief of civilian oversight" whatever that happens to mean...

[tigerkaya]

But Steve was making an effort to conceal the publics knowledge of Bucky's past as the Winter Soldier given the unfair trial he would receive for his war crimes.

[mrstatham]

There's a massively different context there. Unwillingly being brainwashed into being a Soviet assassin is vastly different than being a whistleblower here.

[wizardru]

I don't disagree, but let's be clear here: Bucky KILLED a lot of people. I'm pretty sure the families of Bucky's victims would have a very different opinion of the matter, as did the Russian government when they threw him a gulag. A strong case could be made that Steve is being hypocritical here, though I think that lacks nuance. I am curious where Spencer is going to take this, but I also think not actually saying what Sam did to alienate so many people is kind of odd. I get that he's trying to take the focus off the actual issues and more on the conflict, but it feels a little weird to me.

[tigerkaya]

Fair point on the mind control but my point was mainly on Cap having little faith on the justice system.

[nyadnar17]

I wasn't sure about this...but the fairly even split in the comments here have convinced me Nick Spencer is doing a good job.

So I've been wondering this for a while...

[junipepper]

Why is Sam, Captain America now? I mean, I know what happened to Steve, but is there some kind of rule that America must always have a Captain? Did Sam become a serum-powered super soldier (because wasn't that kind of the point of Cap?) or is he the same as when he was Falcon, only now he carries the shield over his wings (which frankly looks awkward as hell)?

I don't have a long history of following Marvel; the New 52 pretty much drove me there, actually, and I know I'm missing references in what I do read. So maybe this is one of those things that's so obvious that no one feels the need to explain -- but I'm puzzled.

Re: So I've been wondering this for a while...

[nyadnar17]

Its a good question. Honestly I didn't even realize how odd it was until I read your post. Basically Captain America is one of the very few "legacy" mantles at Marvel. There was always a "Captain America" up until the red scare when that age's Captain America started going insane.

After Steve Rogers was unfrozen he restarted the mantle. He had a falling out with the PTB and it was revealed that Uncle Sam actually owned the rights the name Captain America. They striped him of the position and gave it to John F. Walker. That move right there kinda solidified Captain America as one of the few Marvel identities that was designed to be passed on and creators ran with the concept after that.

Re: So I've been wondering this for a while...

[filthysize]

It's the same reason Bucky became Cap when he died, even though he was just as reluctant to do it as Sam was. It's because it's Steve's wish. Steve never wanted to be THE sentinel of liberty. He always saw it as a symbol, a duty, that's just necessary and he happened to get the job. It was in his will for the shield to be given to someone worthy after his death, and it's why he asked Sam to take it when he lost his serum. Steve doesn't want an America without a Cap, and no one wants to say no to that.

[siliconshaman]

So, you know how they say there's two Americas [pick whichever topic you like on that]... that pretty well summed it up.

On the one had, you have people who think America will do the right thing, and on the other, you have people who only hope it will.

for various values of 'right' and 'hope' that is.

[starwolf_oakley]

Steve *was* punished for Civil War. He was lectured by Sally Floyd about how if he knew more about MySpace and NASCAR, Civil War wouldn't have happened.

[alschroeder3]

I think Sally lecturing Cap about how he can't stand for America if he doesn't know more about Myspace or NASCAR was punishing the READERS.

[freezer]

If anyone hasn't, go look up the "Cap's Response" edit. It'll put a smile on your face!

[jeremyp]

Considering Shield's many, many issues, I can't imagine trusting them with the power to reshape reality.

[punisher007]

Steve never gets punished for anything. He gets to be a martyr, and meanwhile Tony Stark spends the next few years being blamed for EVERYTHING that goes wrong in the MU, whether it was actually his fault or not. Ditto Cyclops after AVX. Now it seems like it might be Sam's turn to be dragged through the mud in order to make Saint Steve look good. No, Steve is most awesomnest awesome guy ever who can do wrong and is on the right side of EVERY issue and blah blah blah.

Marvel has started to make me actively dislike Steve, just by Gary Stuing him so much. And that depresses me because I liked him before.

[thanekos]

Alas, Steve's an ideal- who wants those to have flaws, unless it's to make a cynical point without a follow-up?