The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade

[cyberghostface]

"Alan Moore and I once had about a six-hour argument about the Joker, back when he did comic books -- because he believed that the Batman and Joker were almost parallels that were separated at birth. Alan had a much more, a sort of attitude of moral relativism about what was good and what was evil. I took a much more arched view, because I believe that the Joker is not so much insane as satanic. He's evil incarnate, and he's so malicious that it goes beyond anything we could understand. That's what's so terrifying about him, is that he simply wants to do as much harm and damage as he possibly can." - Frank Miller

Honestly not sure what to make of this. It doesn't really feel like a Joker story and it ends... well, see for yourself.

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

i don't know... feels Jokery to me...

and honestly... i LIKE this batman, the few panels i have seen. that whole "I was young" thing seems like a call back to "WHORES WHORES WHORES"

[cyberghostface]

Well I guess I was little disappointed that it just ends here. I get what Miller and Azzarello were going for but I was hoping to see Batman and Joker interact at least once.

[michaelhealy]

I'm pretty sure that across Dark Knight Returns, Dark Knight Strikes Again and All Star Batman and Robin this Batman explicitly said, in internal monologue, that he enjoyed what he did.

[ekrolo2]

I think there are a few ways you can rationalize this, All Stars already explained here with the whole young thing which is brought back up in Returns with Bruce stating he feels like a young man again. This is him being in a place where he's basically going into if not already in a mid-life crisis.

[starwolf_oakley]

Stuff like this reminds me of BATMAN FOREVER. "Until one terrible morning you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why."

Which could mean Joel Schumacher understands Batman better than Frank Miller. Huh.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Hmm.

Alan Moore wrote the Killing Joke. I doubt anyone can even name a Joker plot from Frank Miller that's not connected to Dark Knight.

I think Moore won.

[angelophile]

Oh god, don't let me live in a world where The Killing Joke is considered a victory.

[silverhammerman]

Can anyone name a Joker story from Moore that's not TKJ? They both wrote one Joker story back in the day.

And while TKJ is (for better or worse) pretty much the definitive Joker story, I'd actually say that Miller "won" the debate if we're going to look at what followed. Aside from a few isolated stories, the modern take tends to be Joker-as-supreme-mass-murderer, which owes way more to Miller than to Moore.

[alicemacher]

Refresh my memory please, someone: In The Dark Knight 'verse, did Bruce retire as Batman because of Jason's murder?

If...

[arthur_wynne]

...unreservedly loving The Killing Joke (while acknowledging that what is done to Barbara in it is textbook fridging and had awful effects on later comics when it was canonized, because I'm not an idiot) is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

I feel the trouble with The Killing Joke is mainly the thing that Moore himself has complained of with regards to DC -they insist on revisiting and elaborating on what he intended to be standalone stories, even decades after the fact.

[arthur_wynne]

If I recall correctly, it is not explicitly stated anywhere that such is the case but it is heavily implied.

[silverhammerman]

How'd you find this overall?

I haven't been much interested in DKIII because it looks like the kind of gonzo craziness which I don't feel Miller excels at, but this looks way more grounded and interesting in the way that Miller can be when he's not just indulging his political views and genre hangups.

[cyberghostface]

I thought it as well-written for what it was I suppose. The scenes with Joker at the asylum were very creepy IMO.

[cyberghostface]

Why not, it's a great story?

[cyberghostface]

Well the difference is TKJ is unabashedly a Joker-centered story. Miller (not counting this, which isn't really about the Joker but more about Bruce and Jason) has never written a story that's about the Joker but stories where he features as a supporting character.

[cyberghostface]

What's interesting is when TDK came out Jason Todd was still alive in the comics and how he died in TDK was never stated.

After Jason Todd 'died' they ended up lifting the element of Batman keeping his costume inside a display case from TDK. So it's one of those things that people read it now and assume it's a direct reference to 'Death of the Family' when it's vice versa.

[tigerkaya]

Oh my god Joker is killing one of Batman's supporting character who could it.. Oh wait false alarm it's just Jason move along people nothing to see here.

[cyberghostface]

There was never any doubt that's what the story was going to be about.

[tigerkaya]

I know I just love making jokes at Jason 's expense.

[kurenai_tenka]

This is new? We're revisiting this again?

[cyberghostface]

Revisiting what? Jason's death?

[kurenai_tenka]

TDKR!

Not sure how I feel about the Jason part of it.

[lego_joker]

"The Joker's stopped laughing" from Swamp Thing #31 might not be a story, but it kicks ass all the same.

[lego_joker]

Yeah, whatever his other sins, Miller seems to be one of the last writers who understands how to do a sober Joker, and that sober Joker is often scarier *and* wittier than the manic, chattery one.

[lego_joker]

I hear that was because DC made Miller tone down his original script. In the original, not only was the Joker's involvement crystal clear, but Miller implied he'd... erm, bad-touched Jason before killing the kid.

[arilou_skiff]

I think my main issue with Miller's Joker is that he's not funny.

The best Jokers tend to be ones where you laugh, or at least chuckle, and then stop becuase you realized how horrible the thing you just laughed at is.

[jlroberson]

I thought this was the only worthy follow-up to the original. DK2 was just an ugly piece of cash-in crap. I don't even know what ASBAR was--except the Yellow issue, that wasn't bad, but the rest, SO bad. DK3 is not all bad, not all good. This, however, is the first one that actually has any reason to exist; it's a story worth telling. And i like the contrast of this middle Batman to both the Goddamn Batman and the Brian Dennehy Batman. He's more sober, more reflective, more responsible. You can see this guy simply saying from the guilt, after Jason's death, fuck it, give up, just relax and wait to die. The script is surprisingly sensitive.

I also like the art and the coloring. This is some of Romita's best work. I think this is good.

[kurenai_tenka]

I've been hearing that rumour for years, but I've never seen an actual source. Is there one that I've not seen?

[steverodgers5]

I actually found this to be a surprisingly decent issue. Though I accept that I may be a little bit biased, due to them having the yellow octave back on the batsuit once again. Rather than them retroactively making out like it never was. (As in the recoloured Killing Joke.)

But I did like that we had a relatively serious, old fashioned tale being told from Miller rather than the extreme, more absurd nonsense he's favoured in recent years. Can we have more of this Miller please?