starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
A panel and a page from DC REBIRTH #1. It is a very strong "homage page" to WATCHMEN.

In 1985, Alan Moore did a 12 issue superhero story about how much he hated the Margaret Thatcher Administration. It had a strong impact on superhero comics. Maybe DC REBIRTH will explore that idea in a meta way. "Everyone hated Thatcher, she nearly ruined England, but it is time to move on."

The similarity to Dr. Manhattan killing Rorschach in WATCHMEN #12 is clear. The Question (pun intended): Is that Dr. Manhattan killing Pandora? Why? The heroes will prove the killer wrong about what?

The issue says that the Nu52 is NOT Barry's fault as a result of FLASHPOINT, but aside from a yellow smiley face button, we don't get whose fault it is. Saying "Dr. Manhattan tweaked the DC Universe for reasons" is a bit off to me, like a mean "Take That" to Alan Moore 30 years later.

It is also edging close to INFINITE CRISIS, where Kal-L, Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor are the bad guys for not liking IDENTITY CRISIS.

I don't mind a good "Take That" now and again. Alex Ross did JUSTICE as a "Take That" to IDENTITY CRISIS, although it was more of a "Measured Response," IMHO.

Date: 2017-03-07 03:30 am (UTC)
speedingtortoise: Happy Platypus (Default)
From: [personal profile] speedingtortoise
. . . I had actually forgotten that Pandora existed.

Date: 2017-03-07 03:43 am (UTC)
empgonzo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] empgonzo
Don't feel bad, for some reason i always confuse her for the Dark Horse character Ghost.

Date: 2017-03-07 03:46 am (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Gee, It's almost like DC made her the most important person in the reboot only to have no idea what to do with her.

Date: 2017-03-07 04:54 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
And mostly have her in her little side book and not, y'know, regularly appear in books people reason more.

Date: 2017-03-07 06:09 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Just yesterday I started reading Tomasi's Batman and Robin series for the first time, and had to spend a while figuring out what that glowing red woman was doing in the background of the first issue.

Pandora sure was the Sensational Character Find Of 2011, wasn't she? Planning counts.

Date: 2017-03-07 07:18 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I think they had more planned for her, realised people didn't particularly care too much for most of the New52 and the reasoning behind the reboot - which was specifically that Barry had fucked up, and then had to spend years either slowly deciding not to acknowledge it, or work up to Rebirth. And now they get to cast it aside with this kind of ham-fisted 'WHY DIDN'T YOU LIKE ME/IT?! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.' scene, which.. To me, feels more like a jab at the fans more than anything else.

Date: 2017-03-07 08:09 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
A problem with their plans is they normally open with "This character or event is gonna be super important!" (unless they're unpopular, in which case we cancel it*), and then worry about build-up later.

They never think to, say, have a character appear in multiple books and events, make them a big thing in a major title like Justice League, and -then- give them their own thing. Or just have them in major books and events, don't put them in self-titled solo books. Heck, make them a hook for a known team- Make a team of A-listers spend a plot finding out what's causing something big, then finding out it's pandora, then trying to figure out more about pandora, then helping her... I dunno. Anyway, make it the center of a major book and then people know what's going on and care.

*See also the nu52's foreshadowed Daemonite plotline, and the super-important Vibe book.

Date: 2017-03-07 01:51 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
I think another problem was that her origin was also tied with Stranger and The Question's not-very-popular retcons.

Date: 2017-03-07 05:47 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, all three were off in a little mystic sideshow.

And books like that? Are *normally* a little mystic sideshow and they should know it.

Date: 2017-03-08 12:47 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Plus, with New 52, DC would sometimes announce important characters and events that would never actually happen. Anyone remember how Ryan Choi and Lady Luck were going to join the Justice League?

Date: 2017-03-08 01:04 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
I remember that!
Gosh, whatever happened with that Lady Luck thing?
Was it actually ever going to happen, or were they just B.Sing or what?

Date: 2017-03-08 04:49 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
It probably was but they were not good at commitment. If a writer changed or an editor changed their mind, stuff just dropped.

There was a whole teased lineup to the JL that never showed up.

Date: 2017-03-07 08:05 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
This is a thing they did a few times- They decided to hype Vibe as this big thing, give him his own series, and... he had a little appearances in JL but no-one thought a little Vibe solo would be the next big thing so it died.

Pandora seemed to be, like, a companion book to Phantom Stranger, a little mystic thing, not as important as promised, so yea;.

Date: 2017-03-07 08:14 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Which is actually a shame, as Vibe was a decent little book.

But then, so was the Talon spin off out of Court of Owls and we haven't seen him in years.

Date: 2017-03-07 01:12 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-Which is actually a shame, as Vibe was a decent little book.-

I believe it, it's just their setup wasn't enough to get a 'small cult following' book going (which should've been the aim), let alone the 'next big thing of cosmic importance'.

'Specially when they already had a known habit of dropping buildups.

-But then, so was the Talon spin off out of Court of Owls and we haven't seen him in years.-

Oh, I had forgotten about him ^^ Owls haven't been seen in awhile...

Date: 2017-03-07 01:53 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The Parliament of Owls were seen in the opening arc of rebirth Nightwing, as he took down more of their global network.

A little ironically, the's the same mission that Talon had, and it's a shame he and Dick have never properly interacted, the circus acrobat who just avoided becoming a Talon, and the circus escapologist who became one, but defied them.

Date: 2017-03-07 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
They should've put him in the Brave and the Bold.
Would've given him a boost for sure.

look i just miss that show okay
(They gave up too soon.)

Date: 2017-03-08 12:48 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
That show was fantastic.

Date: 2017-03-07 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
-And mostly have her in her little side book and not, y'know, regularly appear in books people read more-

Well they did have her show up in Justice League.
That book was kind of big.

Date: 2017-03-07 05:48 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Sure, but she was not a major continuing plotline in JL. You could not follow her adventures by following the League.

Date: 2017-03-07 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
She... kind of was a plotline, what with her whole attempt at grabbing Pandora's Box.
(Which then turned out to somehow be a Mother Box from Earth-3 somehow.
... did they ever bother explaining how any of that made sense?)

Date: 2017-03-07 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
If I recall correctly, Earth-3 was apparently the source of evil (as in the bery concept of evil) in the Multiverse and by opening the box she essentially her own Earth with said evil.

Date: 2017-03-07 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Why would anyone think that?

The current regime are aping the 80s to an insane degree, with more blood and guts. Johns, and DC in general, is Watchmen on steroids

Date: 2017-03-08 08:46 am (UTC)
lizard_of_aus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lizard_of_aus
Its' been a pretty popular theory, if for no other reasons than DC doing what using and abusing his creation (see also Before Watchmen) and the fact that people in general seem to enjoy picking fights over the mere whiff of an insult.

Date: 2017-03-07 11:37 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Again, how does anything she says match up to the tranquil, peaceful, benign Jon of Watchmen #12?

Whether or not Johns protests it, Pandora has much more of a problem with Watchmen the comic than any of its characters.

Date: 2017-03-07 01:55 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Presumably because she's seen what happened to him AFTER Watchmen #12 and whatever universe shattering catastrophe would have struck them.

Date: 2017-03-07 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Rachel ? Rachel Summers is that you?

Date: 2017-03-07 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Nah, not her.
You can tell because she's not suffering enough.


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