Discussion: Manga translation conventions

[ozaline]

"People who have heard me pontificate on translation before might know that I think the retention of honorifics that has become so common in manga translations is generally an unnecessary and even wrong-headed practice. In fact, after twenty years of professionally translating manga, I am hard pressed to recall a case in which I retained honorifics (without an editor holding a gun to my head). Retention of Japanese honorifics without good reason seems to me to be an affectation intended to make self described otaku feel part of an exclusive club that understands, for example, what the honorific "-chan" means.

In the case of Wandering Son, though, skipping over honorifics would not only make my job more difficult, but also completely close off the reader to an aspect of the work that is both important and intrinsically interesting. But if I'm going to retain honorifics, I'm going to do it right. So bear with me while I offer a glossary that is, I hope, more thorough and nuanced than the kind you'll find in most manga translations."

--Matt Thorn


So just thought I'd start up a discussion do you prefer honorifics retained in manga? Or do you think they should be localized. I for one prefer their retention, I feel manga in particular rely on honorifics a lot to convey a character's feelings in a way that can't be approximated in English. Especially true in a queer work like Wandering Son, but in many other works as well.

Bellow is an example from Kaguya-sama Love is War of a scene that would be hard to localize







The Viz version of Kaguya-sama actually does drop the honorifics, so this is gonna be hard for them to translate.





Also do you prefer that names be rendered into western order or left in Japanese order? Again I lean towards leaving them in Japanese order, for a few reasons. I've come across several instances where there's word play that only works if you maintain the original order, and I've also seen it used to build tension by making you think they're addressing one member of a family, only for it to be another one.

This example below from Mix: Meisei Story is not the strongest example, this could be done with Western order... but I couldn't find the exact trope I wanted at the moment.

Comments

[locuatico]

Personally, wether they retain it or not, what I care most of all is one thing: Consistency. If you retain the honorifics, you keep the honorifics whenever they show. If you remove them, you don't get to put them back.
Because I HATE when a translation (either fan transletion or official. they do this, too) decides to change it mid-series. I hate that I have to re-adjust my brain (as you can guess, I hated whenever I had to change fan translations)

After that... case by case.
I honestly don't mind if FMA drops the honorifics, since almost the entire cast is supposed to be european (except maybe Ishvalans, but you get my point. they weren't supposed to be read as japanese either). However, I think something very clearly set in japan (outside of High-school manga... say... a series set in medieval japan) should keep it, or at least keep the manner of speak as much as they can.
If the story relies heavily on relationships and that sort of thing? then yes, the honorifics are probably an important part of the story that are intended to pass on a meaning that would be lost otherwise.

Then there is certain words (Keikaku). Mostly... I think you should translate them... if the translated word sounds cool. Keikaku is ridiculous, but I will admit I preffer when One Piece keeps "Nakama" instead of "companion". Since I feel the literal meaning (ciompanion) is translated effortlesly and the intended meaning (that of friends so important to you, you are willing to declare war to the whole damn world for their sake) is also conveyed better than if it was translated.

Likewise, there are words for complicated concepts that just have no translation in other languages (not just in japan. most languages have at least one word that is untranslatable).
For example, I distinctly remember the 2003 adaption of Astro Boy kept the word "kokoro" as the thing that made robots like Astro special and why they were true AIs with the ability to grow, which would probably be really hard to convey otherwise.

"Senpai" is also a word I feel should be kept most times, even if you remove Kouhai, since it is a word that is easy to understand and conveys an important aspect of the relationship.

Translations should respect name order. I mean, if FMA can bother to have it's character's names by in the western order, I think the translation team can bother to keep the japanese order and assume the readers won't get confused (altough, if the story is set outside of japan, yes, go ahead and change to the western order).

In short, I don't think it is a matter of wether one is "better" or prefferable, but that those kind of changes should be done on a case by case basis, as with most translations.

That being said, I much preffer to hear "onii-chan" than "big Brother".

[ozaline]

I've never seen an anime or manga, set in the west that used Japanese order for western characters anyway. If anything I've seen them go a bit to far in using a person's personal name. The second Touch TV special has Uesugi on a independent baseball team in the states and all the other players are called by their first names so much that the movie didn't bother giving them last names. Despite the fact that the family name is typically what's on their jersey.

Also a lot of works set in the west already eschew most honorifics except maybe "-san," in which case they typically do use it as a stand in for Mr. or Ms. But there are exceptions.

and yes I prefer Oniisama, and Oneesama (and variants)... Except when a western character is all "Big brother," (like in Heroman).

The only problem with a case by case approach is now-a-days when Manga are often being translated in the very early stages of production it's hard to tell how important it'll end up being. Like I said the Kaguya-sama manga eschews it in official translation (despite them calling the title Kaguya-sama), and there's some direct musing on it in that scene above, and others.

But yeah in works that are heavily based on Western cultures if they still use them it's probably okay to drop 'em. Though to go to my favourite in Sakura Wars V which was set in New York they translated the non-binary and Japanese character's honorific as -san... which was pretty problematic. Since they are Japanese anyway leaving it untranslated would probably have been the best way to go.

[locuatico]

"I've never seen an anime or manga, set in the west that used Japanese order for western characters anyway."
Most don't. it's mostly fantasy series like One Piece that do. (Ironically, it would be too awkward to change One Piece's name order at this point)

I agree that it is probably very hard to do a case-by-case basis because of the reasons you mentioned. Mostly is how I, ideally, think you would need to do to define when an honorific is necessary and when you can skip it.
which is why I only ask for consistency. Maybe then do a re-do when translating the full volumes and you have a better grasp on how important the honorifics are.

When it is a western character, I say translate "Onii-chan" as anything other than "big brother", because it always sound awkward to me.

[ozaline]

Yeah Heroman was the first time I watched an anime and was like... "oh my god can we just have her call her brother by his name, this is kinda cringey."