Superior Spider-Man #12

[cyberghostface]

Comments

[tcampbell1000]

Remember Amazing Spider-Man #50, the first use of this "super-costume left out in the trash" trope, and how Peter's resolution to give up Spider-manning in it only lasted about twelve pages?

[zachbeacon]

I've always wanted to do a short story that opens with Peter making yet another "Spider-Man, No More" proclamation only to put the costume on again almost immediately.

I'd say it seems a little more permanent with Otto but this is, what, the second or third time he's quit?

[super_fly]

All I can think about is how everytime it happens they just leave it draped it over the side, not even folding it up and putting it in properly.

Look this time he even just left a glove on the ground. Think about who has to come around and empty these, sheesh.

[beyondthefringe]

And every time they discard their costume, someone else comes along, finds it, and puts it on. Or takes it as a trophy.

Last I checked, the Superior Spider-Man costume possessed some interesting proprietary technology in it, so I wonder if Otto stripped out the tech and was just tossing away the outer layer, or what...

[shakalooloo]

He let the tentacle do it. Clearly, that is the tentacle that still wants to be Superior, and tried pulling it back along with him as he walked away.

"Otto, no! We can still be Spider-Man! We just need to let the costume out a little now, that's all!"

[beyondthefringe]

My private hope is that even after all of this, the experience sticks with Otto, and he yearns for things such as friendship, companionship, respect and acceptance. Instead of returning to a life of failure as a supervillain, he instead "retires" to pursue his true love of science and research...

...until a threat to his friends necessitates he once again take up the mantle of heroism.

Because there's no actual -need- for Doctor Octopus the supervillain at this point, and after the character arc he's had, for him to go back to robbing banks, trying to take over the world, or, god forbid, act as a punching bag for Johnny Newhero or the Newest New Warriors, would be a waste.

After all, Otto had the tentative acceptance and trust of the rest of the Spider-Clan, the Avengers, and the Fantastic Four. Once you've had Captain America and Reed Richards genuinely accept you as one of their own, it should change someone like Otto... especially someone supposedly free of any mental illness, brain damage, or psychological defects caused by the original accident.

But who'm I kidding? Like Doom, Zemo, Juggernaut, Sabretooth, or Sandman, he'll be reset as soon as some writer comes along who thinks he needs to be a cackling villain again.

[zachbeacon]

I'm still mad about Sandman. He basically only became a villain again because Byrne didn't do his research. The editors enabled it by explaining that he had been brainwashed into being evil.

That doesn't exactly paint Marvel's heroes in a good light. How could the Thing, Spider-Man, the Avengers, and Silver Sable not consider that was a possibility? How many of them have been replaced with an imposter or mind controlled at one time or another?

[cyberghostface]

It was worse than that, Byrne just didn’t like the idea of villains redeeming themselves.

[janegray]

I admit that, for some villains, I don't like Redemption Arcs. If, for example, somebody tried to redeem the Red Skull, I'd be pissed. Some villains just deserve to burn.

Fucking Sandman, though? The guy whose worst crime was robbing banks? UGH.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Byrne's reasoning, IIRC, was that Sandman was on the FBI's most wanted list prior to gaining his abilities and that anyone on that list had to be a bastard.

Because, ya know, that element got so much play and totally wasn't a throw away line

[janegray]

Mark Ruffalo is in FBI's terrorism watchlist for making a documentary that criticises drilling. Just sayin'.

[beyondthefringe]

Can you even imagine what it takes to get on the FBI's Most Wanted list in a comic book universe? I expect they'd need two: one for normal humans, one for supervillains or enhanced criminals. Otherwise, it would just be a permanent lineup of the Sinister Six and Wrecking Crew or something.

[beyondthefringe]

I figure there's a certain tier of villain who neither can be, or deserves, redemption. Your Red Skulls or Jokers, who have never shown even the slightest hint of possibility for change, growth, or remorse. (Extremely rare stories aside.) I never pictured Otto as a potential hero, even though, for all of his many bad qualities, the seeds for decency -were- in him... just rare. (Like when he was convinced to help try and save Reed and Sue's second child...)

There are a lot of villains who I've always figured -could- turn things around if they wanted, if they had the right motivation or opportunity, if the right stories came along. It happens. I mean, who ever thought the Beetle would have become a fairly serious hero? This recent push to turn Absorbing Man and Titania into, if not good guys, then legitimately employed and working for a positive cause. And Sandman's hero arc was convincing enough that his reversal was just a huge letdown.

[cyberghostface]

Joker at least is insane but it has been shown a few times that when his mind is restored he’s overcome with remorse (the Spectre issue) or not wanting to become the Joker again (Snyder’s run with Bruce and him on the bench). And it’s an AU but White Knight showed what might happen if he was in proper control of his facilities.

[zachbeacon]

I don't know a ton about Alpha Flight but was Byrne the one who revealed Northstar used to be be part of a real-world terrorist organization or was that someone else?

[silverhammerman]

I've already said my piece as to why I find this disappointing and weirdly convoluted, so I'm now left with the question of what comes next for Doc Ock.

Slott's run pushed him about as far as it's possible to go into non-cosmic villainy before redeeming him, so it would be hard to outdo that, but this pretty clearly shut the door on further heroic adventures. Going back to mad science and robbing banks would be silly, but just fading into the background after all this would seem like a massive waste. Someone's got to have something planned for the character or they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of setting all of this up.

[deh_tommy]

This was kind of inevitable, though: if he actually refused Mephisto’s deal, I think he really would have proven himself to be the superior Spider-Man, since both Peter and Miles couldn’t refuse him either. But, while infinitely better, that’s hard to keep on trying to work on your bad behaviour and very, very easy to relapse or just give up (especially given how Otto here wasn’t sure of how much of him was actually him and how much was Parker).

If you want to be technical, though, this Otto is a backup clone of the quote-unquote “real” one, who is still dead.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

What I hate about this switchback, is that there's still so much material left unaddressed.

I mean, come on! Doc interacting with his old pals Sinister Six pals alone would be priceless.