A pivotal Robin moment in Teen Titans Annual #2

[icon_uk]

Bruce and Damian have a LONG overdue father son moment, which leads to something terrribly sad.




Bruce FINALLY confronts Damian over his whole "Jail the bad guys without due process, and possibly reprogram their minds" plan he's been running in Teen Titans of late.

Damian says that since Batman no longer seems to worry about making the villains fear him, HE will.

The other Titans inform him that they're actually not nearly as scared of the villains as they are of Robin these days

Bruce tries to get him to stop.







Too bloody right you have Bruce. A Robin isn't just for random crossover appearances because Bruce is being all broody by himself is what the Batfamily titles tend to go for, it's for life and this kid is THIRTEEN!

Damian has a rather horrible flashback to Alfred's death (and Alfred begging, not for his life, but that Damian isn't made to watch him die, which is ignored) as he stares at the R symbol on his chest, until...





So this does seem to confirm the various rumours that Damian will no longer be Robin goign forward, giving Tim the chance to reclaim the name Robin (and they'll probably just pretend that Tim was never "Robin" in the post-Flashpoint universe, he was always "Red Robin")

I'm bitterly disappointed by this decision, if it what it seems. Damian has been a conentious character since his introduction, but I've liked the kid he's grown into for the most part (though inconsistent writing hasn't helped) and his growth whilst with (and since) Dick!Batman were a lot of fun.

I think I said when New52 came along that Damian was a bad Robin for Bruce in terms of the duo's dynamic and I think I was right. You don't create a thirteen-year old Robin who has such a skewed worldview and then keep isolating him from his father figure(s) because it misses the point of what Robin is for IMHO.

I also worry about the direction they will take him moving forward. Given his actions in Titans it may be more of the anti-hero and that I feel shouldn't be where they take someone who is an Al Ghul who has been trying so hard to be a hero for years now.

I also wonder how Dick will react to this when he comes back to his senses?
 

Comments

[donnblake]

Isn't Tim going by Drake (the deadliest bird!) these days?

I never warmed all that much to Damian- I haven't read an awful lot with him, he always struck me as consciously try-hard edgy (admittedly as a character choice rather than just a writing one) and while I understand where that comes from and don't find it entirely unsympathetic, I have a hard time not rolling my eyes when he's on panel most of the time. (So a case of not-for-me more than an accusation of his being badly written of a poor character, to be clear).

But clearly this opens the way for Batman to get a new goldfish- er... Robin! Hey, what happened to that kid with the light powers?

[icon_uk]

I think Drake isn't going to last longer than Young Jsutice, plus we have a lot of recent upcoming images of him in a variation of his old Robin togs.

Duke is going by "Beacon" these days, and is covering the day shift in Gotham.

[donnblake]

Pretty quick turnaround on Robin to "Unique Superhero Identity," there, although I guess having a set of powers to base it around helps.

[zachbeacon]

"Beacon" is a very good name but what happened to "Signal"?

[deh_tommy]

I could have sworn he was called Spotlight, but I have no idea how I got that in my head.

[zachbeacon]

Okay, once we figure out what Duke's codename is we need to give him a new one because none of these are memorable. Maybe just finally officially make him a Robin because there seems to be an opening*.

*If not, give the name bect to Tim because "Drake" is a stupid idea and "Red Robin" just makes me think about food.

Or maybe we're due for another female Robin. What's Gotham Girl up to these days?

[icon_uk]

Well, that's embarassing....

He IS "The Signal"!

Ahem... Am I allowed to use a "I've been doing a lot of crosswords lately" excuse?

[zachbeacon]

I legitimately thought they might have changed it because I haven't been following the character and "Signal" is such an underwhelming name anyway

[sadoeuphemist]

It's Signal as in Bat-Signal! It's not called the Bat-Beacon, or the Bat-Spotlight, or the Bat-Lighting-Apparatus — the mnemonic's right there, people!

[zachbeacon]

I get the naming convention ... kinda*. I just don't think it's a good name. It's not the worst name (c'mon Cass, it's really insensitive to call yourself "the Orphan" when you're one of the few people you know with two living parents).

*Why "the Signal"? Because he called the We Are Robin kids into action? Would a car-themed Gotham hero have to be "The Mobile" because the Batmobile exists? Would an aquatic hero have to be "The Shark Repellent"?

[sadoeuphemist]

Look, they used the name Batwing for both an airplane and a person. And then, like you said, Gotham Girl exists. At some point you gotta really start strip-mining the IP for more tie-ins.

[zachbeacon]

Seriously most of the Batfolk have meaningful names.
I shouldn’t have to explain “Batman”
A “Robin” is a flashy bird that heralds the beginning of spring and the end of the cold and darkness of winter.
“Batgirl” is Batman but a girl.
“Batwoman” is Batman but a woman.
“Nightwing” is a character from Kryptonian legend. This one seems pretty out there until you remember that Superman is Dick’s cool uncle and Dick was looking to distance himself from Batman when he created the identity.
(Not entirely sure why Bette went with “Flamebird” though. Seems like cultural appropriation.)
“Oracle” is a source of information
“Red Hood” is a giant FU to the Joker.
“Red Robin” is a place to get a burger.
“Drake” is, um, a different bird. Or a discount dragon. Or someone’s last name.
(I think Tim might be bad at this)
“Spoiler” is a giant FU to the Cluemaster
“Azrael” is a named used by a religious fanatic.
“Gotham” and “Gotham Girl” …. lack imagination?
I have no idea what “Signal” is supposed to mean aside from it being a vaguely Batman-related thing.
PS: I typed this intending it to be an edit to my last post. Now that I’ve seen your response, I think we were on the same page. Also, I completely forgot Batwing.

[kurenai_tenka]

Super late reply but I enjoyed this comment lol.

[zachbeacon]

Thank you. I had fun dunking on Tim

(Tim is my favorite Robin... but not my favorite character to BE Robin because, y'know, Dick exists)

[werehawk]

In 2021, Batman's newest partner the Mobile!!! (As in Bat-mobile, get it?)

[zachbeacon]

I'd still rather have the Shark Repellent.

[jaxjyls]

No more edgier than most other Gotham characters

[donnblake]

I mean, in the grand scheme of things probably not, but what I've read of Damian irritates me in a way that many other Gotham characters do not. If you don't feel that way about him, that's fine too.

[jaxjyls]

My standard for Gotham edginess is set with Jason at the top so pretty much everyone is less try-hard than him

[donnblake]

I don't think I've really read anything with Jason as the Red Hood since his initial return, where I more or less gave him a pass for resurrection trauma (and he was cast as an antagonist anyways, which for me, helps that sort of thing grate less) but I can definitely see that from the bits I've picked up.

[magicrubbish]

Well I for one is cautiously optimistic and in fact happy with these turn of events. Full disclosure: Damian is my most favorite DC character. He's THE character anchor which keeps me attached to DC. Having said that , I completely agree that Damian can never come to his own as long as he's in Batman's shadow. He's right , his father will never see him for who he really is and what is he capable of achieving as long as he's Batman's sidekick , one of the innumerable Robins. Damian has the capability of being so much more. But for that he needs to shed off the tag of Robin. It was perfect as his entry point but it's been a while since he's grown out of that shoe. This is indeed crossroads for him. The way many years ago Dick Greyson shed off the tag of Robin , the 1st ever Robin. Had he not done that he would not ever be Nightwing.
Damian will never be Bruce part 2 and he doesn't need to be. He needs to find his own way and I don't think he'll take a turn for the worse because even in this issue we see the influence of Alfred over him , his guiding star , his anchor with humanity his real father figure. He also have Jonathan Kent . He has Dick. He'll go on a path of self discovery and make the right choice.
After all , he always have.
Bruce doesn't deserve to be part of that journey with how long and how utterly he ignored and neglected the existence of his son. One sorry apology doesn't change anything nor it should.

[icon_uk]

Thank you for the more upbeat spin! :)

[magicrubbish]

Always holding out the bright candle of hope and prayer circle for my precious boy. <3
I can not express how much I love Dami. :'))

[magicrubbish]

Also I'm really glad that Teen brats I mean Teen Titans have been dissolved. Those kids suck as team mates . Dami deserves better friends.
Correct that , he actually has better friends. Also saves me the trouble of going through their boring acts just for the sake of Damian.
I hope they give him his own comic series now or with Jonathan. He's now popular enough to survive and succeed his own issues .
And keep Bruce away from my boy. Can Clark and Louise adopt him as their second son ?? I always liked his interactions with Superman.

[janegray]

I will say, I appreciate that page where Bruce tells him that he loves Damian and admits he failed.

[magicrubbish]

Too little too late , I'd say. But at least he made an effort. I'm glad he did .
I'm glad that effort failed.

[silverhammerman]

If they're actually going to do this I kind of wish they'd done it a few years ago. Either leaning into the decentralized, civic minded aspects of We Are Robin or just promoting Duke Thomas rather than making him the Signal, the superheroic legacy equivalent of a dead end job.

As is, I'll be a little surprised if this sticks. Damian's been gaining traction the past few years as Robin in mass media adaptations which I can't imagine DC wants to lose, and given that he's pointedly younger than the other Robins, giving him his own identity as a solo hero would be tricky to justify. They could age him up, but I suspect that DC wouldn't want Batman's one biological kid running around as a 20-something.

Also, as someone who has complained before about the Batfamily being too large, this is getting ridiculous. If Damian leaves and they bring in yet another Robin, Batman will have gone through five major Robins, that's too many Robins! It's confusing and redundant!

[donnblake]

With the sliding timescale, pretty soon "Robin," will basically be a summer internship.

[icon_uk]

Which is pretty much exactly what DC said when the New52 started.

Dick was stated as being 16 when he started as Robin 5 years previously, and he, Jason, Tim and Damian had all been Robin in the space of those 5 years.

[janegray]

And then this mandate was pointedly ignored by any and all writers for being too dumb.

[magicrubbish]

Maybe there won't be any more Robin ? At least for a while. Because Bat is already working alone for quite some time , away from Robin.
ETA : Aging Damian up actually sounds quite possible, since they have already aged up his pal Jonathan and that does not seem a problem with DC . So why not Damian ?? After all , they've been more of a dynamic duo than Batman-Robin .

[icon_uk]

I'd rather they aged Jonathan back down again. I don't think anything he's done with the Legion as a teenager has been more interesting than the dynamic they had between a ten year old Superboy and a 13 year old Robin. If they're both older teenagers, it might well be a bit Tim/Kon 2.0

[magicrubbish]

Kind of agree lol, they were super cute in Super Sons. Kiddies.

[werehawk]

Actually, if Bendis was smart about it, he could have had his cake and eat it too. He could have had a 4 year older Jonathan show up in the present with the LSH and the same storyline - but the Jonathan was from the (near) future. Superboy has only been appearing in LSH anyway. And young Jonathan/Damian stay the same ages now.

[lordultimus]

See this is why Damian needs a Jon his own age or younger, this would never have happened in the Super Sons era.

[matrix_dragon]

Stop blaming Batman for the status quo. The man is not judge, jury and executioner, and never has been. Blame the writers out of universe, and the justice system in-universe.

[donnblake]

Wellll.... kind of?

I mean, yes, from an out-of-universe perspective, going "If we did *this* we wouldn't fight the same revolving group of villains!" is futile, because the Joker is always going to come back because writers are going to keep wanting to tell Joker stories. (And also because there often seems to be some fan backlash against new villains, especially ones that are presented as major threats).

But from an in-universe perspective where you're arguing about Batman's methods, he doesn't really have a commitment to the justice system. Consider

When Batman breaks into a warehouse to search for clues, or dangles a crook off a ledge to interrogate him, he's either acting on his own recognizance independently of the police, or he's acting as an agent for the police.

If he's acting independently, he's acting illegally on his own recognizance, because he believes that the outcome of his actions are more important than the law.

If he's acting as an agent of the police, he's acting *unconstitutionally,* because he believes that the outcome of his actions are more important than the law.

Either way, he's not actually motivated by a belief in the justice system- he's acting according to his own set of values, which in many important ways overlap with the values of the justice system.

In this sense, Damian isn't arguing about Justice System should treat villains, he's arguing with the part of Batman's principles that say "Once you've caught the bad guy, the determination of their guilt and their sentencing should be handled through the court system."

[leahandillyana]

This was the nicest issue of Teen Titans since well before New 52, but it really showcases how the "no killing (unless I personally do it)" ideology goes nowhere. Damian is unfortunately right here - some villains cannot be contained or redeemed, and killing them is the only option. I guess he may team up with Red Hood now?

[deh_tommy]

He could become the next (first?) Scarlett.

DDIT: Ooh, I saw someone mention they could use him to canonise Red X!

[obsidianwolf]

My reaction to this is pretty much the same as my reaction to Damian himslef prety much ambivelent. I mean the character came along and hit way too many of my this is everything wrong with DC comics buttons and while some writers have done some real heavy lifting and almost salvaging him it's just never quiet worked to me.

And this plot line while heavily foreshadowed dozens or so times over still feels hollow because sooner or later the status quo of Damain as Robin is probably going to be restored. I seriously doubt we've got a Hal Jordan or Barry Allen situation where Damian will get shuffled to the side to make way for the more iconic character. (that would only happen if DC decided to reboot totally and put Dick back in the short pants)

[deepspaceartist]

I mean, according to upcoming solicits, Tim is back to being Robin again. And there is a not insignificant portion of fandom that prefers him to Damian in the role.

[obsidianwolf]

Oh I have no doubt Tim has many people who prefer him in the role but I think Damian is very much like Barbara in that editorial will inevitably put him back in the role regardless of what more fans want sooner or later.

It is pretty much a given unless DC gets bit by the we can't have Batman be too old and having a 13 year old kid ages him too much bug.

[werehawk]

Wouldn't it be cute if Steph and Tim were both Robins together?

[tcampbell1000]

Not sure if that's meant to be Batman's shadow on the cover there, but can't unsee or unthink about how that'd mean the shadows were going in two different directions.

Damian's Gitmo phase was never my favorite, so I'm glad to leave it behind, and I'll concede there's some effort to justify it in light of his recent traumas. But Batman's apology seems less like an earned moment and more like a veiled CYA from the creators. "Hmm, Damian was running his own secret prison and low-key terrorizing his teammates for what felt like YEARS and Batman never noticed even though they were living and working together at the same time? How do we explain that? I know, let's just have Batman admit he's a BIG, STUPID ASSHOLE."

There's something deeply ironic, and not in a good way, about this iteration of Teen Titans echoing the "outgrowing Robin" theme. When Dick did it, it seemed like an acknowledgment of growth and the passage of time, and the story was very committed to the follow-through of his new identity. If this is indeed about Damian vacating the role so Tim can step in, it's about going backward, not forward.

Frankly, I'm not anxious to see any more Robins after this. Let's just give that concept a long rest. Signal's got his own thing going on, Tim's the obvious choice but he's really outgrown the role, and I can't see how anybody new could really get past the child-endangerment thing.

[lonewolf23k]

Maybe Damien can become Red X or something?

[zachbeacon]

Nah, I think he has to steal either "Red Robin" or "Drake" from Tim so we can officially turn this into a Genis-Vell / Monica Rambeau thing.

[superfangirl1]

I have grown to like Damien as Robin. Also feel bad for Damian that's he's going through so much emotional trauma with Alfred's death. What is really frustrating is Damian’s character being so inconsistent in comics.

If this ends with Damian becoming Flamebird with Dick, I know not likely but would love that possibility.

[raspberryrain]

I've heard of emancipated minors, but this is ridiculous!

[john_wyatt]

I really adored the Super Sons dynamic. I really hated Bendis aging Jon and Damian breaking bad. Most of the time, reset retcons bug me, but I'd prefer a return of a younger, more innocent Jon/Damian pairing. LSH and Teen Titans have done nothing for me.