Cable #9: Bargaining

[superboyprime]

"They’re the same–just decades apart. Inexperienced heroes are a delight though. Anybody that doesn’t like Cable as a kid, doesn’t deserve to like him when he’s a grizzled vet. The Old Man is who the kid wants to be. Isn’t watching him strive to achieve that fun?" - Gerry Duggan

Comments

[jgeils]

Note to Gerry Duggan: You tell me if "Iron Kid" was fun after they killed Iron Man back in "Avengers: The Crossing".

[icon_uk]

Honestly? I never particularly cared for uber wealthy, overly entitled, worried about stocks and shares, Tony Stark of the 70's and 80's.

Not helped, I admit, by my introduction to him being UK black and white magazines reprinting stories from the 60's where "top hat transistors" solved any technical problem, rollerskates in the Iron Man suit were a major upgrade and there was always some Commie or other to crush, and I couldn't disassociate the two,

Teen Tony was at least looking at the world through a lens which didn't start in the early 60s, which for a futurist seems like a refreshing change.

[tinygaylaura]

I have not read any of the "Teen Tony" stories but given how much I hate the Adult Tony Stark it is literally impossible for me to hate the teenage version MORE so I have to assume I would like him a little bit more as a character

[deh_tommy]

From what I’ve heard, teen Tony was alright, that was The Crossing that soured everyone and the idea sadly never stood much of a chance.

[obsidianwolf]

Honestly Teen Tony wasn't around long enough to really make much of an impact one way or the other.

I personally enjoyed it and thought it had a lot of potential given the Teen Tony absolutely hated what he learned about his future self and very much didn't want to be him at all but had a lot of the same habits already established that could lead him down that road. But since it only lasted IIRC about twelve issues before Onslaught/Heroes reborn reset things there really wasn't much of a chance for it to go anywhere.

[deh_tommy]

Isn’t Old Cable who Young Cable *doesn’t* want to be?

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, I was reading the quote and wondering what the heck he was talking about.

[chalicother]

. "Anybody that doesn’t like Cable as a kid, doesn’t deserve to like him when he’s a grizzled vet. The Old Man is who the kid wants to be. Isn’t watching him strive to achieve that fun?"

I mean it can be....but if I am interested in reading about a older character and his approach to things due to his older age and experience....why would I want to read about him when he was younger and take one of his unique characters details? You know being older than his parents biologically and giving them a unique dynamic when interacting ? Why make him younger, when we have plenty of younger X-men characters that already are ignored that could focus ?

I hated it with the Original X-men when they were time displaced...and I hate it with Cable..

There's already enough straight white male X-men that are not given focus...lets not even go into other minorities and non-heterosexual characters...

Yes, lets take one of the aspects that made Cable stand out...

[gnarll]

Didn't the kid shoot the old man in the face because he wasn't what the kid wanted to be?

[silverhammerman]

I think that's something that's changed within Duggan's series. Ever since getting his ass humiliatingly kicked in X of Swords, Kid Cable has come around to the idea that the take-no-prisoners badass that everyone around him remembers the old Cable as might be someone who he should emulate.

[tinygaylaura]

I mean if Marvel wants to retcon that I doubt anyone will care because I doubt anyone cared about the original story much

Probably even less people cared about it than the numbr of people who bought it

Honestly apart from Laura becoming Wolverine and getting a fun kid sister and a cute pet sidekick and Iceman coming out as gay, nothing much else that happened in the time span that began with the start of A vs X and ended just before the first issue of House of X was worth caring about

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, strongly agree. A lot of Cable's distinctiveness as a character came from his background and where he was already at in his life, and Kid Cable doesn't have that. I'm also not a huge fan of being told whether or not I "deserve" to read a story. I mean, I think that Duggan is being off the cuff and a little silly, as industry interviews tend to go, but it's still a slightly annoying sentiment.

[onsokumaru]

I hate teen Cable for the same reason I hate the time traveling teen X-Men and teen Bloodstorm: there are too many X-kids in limbo to waste pages on young version of mutants who are already overexposed.

[deh_tommy]

Aw, I really liked the Blue team. That’s partly why I dislike young Cable, he killed old Cable and forced them to go back to the past so they become their jerk selves in the present because he’s protecting time or somesuch, then turns around and that turns out part of his big plan was to alter time so Cyclops survived the M-Pox. He’s a hypocrite.

[chalicother]

That’s partly why I dislike young Cable, he killed old Cable and forced them to go back to the past so they become their jerk selves in the present because he’s protecting time or somesuch, then turns around and that turns out part of his big plan was to alter time so Cyclops survived the M-Pox

I mean I hated that message that the Younger X-men sent kept putting out.
It made sense to an extent, but it ignored the trauma, the gravity of the situation, and that all the X-men including the original X-men had been in complex situations that resulted in their situations.

No one calls out the original X-men on their selfishness , that if they were to die they would ruin the timeline of the X-men and everyone they inspire.
They get to be selfish and have no context what their old counterparts had to go through.

I will give Young Cable this...he was the only character allowed to make sense and stop the majority of the characters just ignoring what's happening and just making self-serving excuses to let them stay.

[deh_tommy]

To be fair, initially they did try to go back but the laws of time travel meant they were from an alternate timeline and not the direct past, so there was no true consequence to letting them stay. This was of course retconned later down the line, but still.

What the older X-Men went through was complex and the O5 lacked context, true. But that complexity is what made most of them into such bitter jerks. In that sense, isn’t that a good thing the younger X-Men didn’t have to go through that kind of trauma and transformation? I’m sure anyone would be rightly scared if their future selves turned out to be buttholes. Just look at kid Loki and adult Loki, or Gwenpool and Gwenpool Black, or Hulk and Maestro.

[donnblake]

Or any two given versions of Kang!

[deh_tommy]

Or even young Cable here and the elder Cable, whom he murdered partly because he was ashamed of how “soft” he had become.

[chalicother]

In that sense, isn’t that a good thing the younger X-Men didn’t have to go through that kind of trauma and transformation? I’m sure anyone would be rightly scared if their future selves turned out to be buttholes. Just look at kid Loki and adult Loki, or Gwenpool and Gwenpool Black, or Hulk and Maestro.

Disagree , because those character have different situations.

Kid Loki was literally more akin to a clone and didn't affect a timeline

Also the only time dispelled X-Men who had any right to be angry was Scott and Angel. Even then Teen Scott never really understands the gravity of his situation and it just came off as whining and ignoring all of the good the X-men did

Jean , I could see having to deal with an idealized version of yourself ,but everyone handwaved the consent uses of her powers.

Bobby... literally had nothing to complain with his adult self , until it came with shaming him out of the closet and not recognizing Jean was great..for reasons

Beast..I can't even touch that since I felt that the direction that Beast character has gone in , has annoyed me for so long that I have to black it out.

I would probably tolerate them more if people called out the selfishness of thier actions and realized how much good they did in thier lives and that them not living it would screw over the mutants, humans , and other beings they saved , mentored , and supported , but from what I saw the story just let's the Original X-Men not realize the gravity.

I mean yes the recon did happen, but later on we find out they are the one and the same

Kitty saying nonsense that them being around makes it feel like old times..

Old Cable saying they have the right to choose...

Alot of characters throw out thier common sense for the story to keep on going.

[onsokumaru]

I admit the writers had some good ideas with them.
Beast walking a different dark path than usual, trying to learn dark magic, was interesting. Teen Jean, while being a bit unsufferable, was at least entertaining, unlike the flawless boring character adult Jean is. Cyclops of all people joining a non-mutant team was also a good idea.

I'm just bitter thinking that their stories could have been told with Prodigy, No Girl or Surge.

[chalicother]

I'm just bitter thinking that their stories could have been told with Prodigy, No Girl or Surge.

That's one of issues , you could have just used the library of mutants who don't get focus and have them have these storylines.

It would be interesting to hear from the young mutants who live during these times have an opinion than them being used as background props for the older X-Men to fight over or having the time displaced X-men making judgements without context and just messing with the timeline and screwing over other people's futures.

[deh_tommy]

Could they? If they were time-displaced, sure, but a lot of the stories were specific to the O5 and their fish-out-of-water shenanigans (like Jean being placed on trial for crimes she hadn’t committed yet or Cyclops going off to spend the quality time with his dad he never got to have or the younger Iceman helping his older self come out of the closet).

[chalicother]

I hate teen Cable for the same reason I hate the time traveling teen X-Men and teen Bloodstorm: there are too many X-kids in limbo to waste pages on young version of mutants who are already overexposed.

I hated that Era, too.
There are way too many X-kids in limbo and giving focus to characters who had their time is such a way to avoid diversity.

I just remember how before the time-displaced X-men there was at least an effort to make the new generation of X-kids diverse and we ended up with the time-displaced kids and all of them got pushed back into the background to help entertain the idea that what the current original 5 didn't do anything good for the mutantkind and act like having the original X-men as kids was such a bold decision...

[onsokumaru]

At some point they had Genesis and Oya in the team to add some diversity.
Then they got rid of them. But they realized that the O5 only, well, that was not looking good, now that diversity is a selling argument for Marvel. So did they solve that by bringing back Idie in the team? Or adding Noriko or David? Nope! Teen Ororo that's it!

[chalicother]

Then guess when the story came for them to return to thier time period , who died ?

Teen Ororo of course

[scorntx]

I'm sure there will be no consequence for Kibble upsetting Esme, who has previously murdered her sister and tried to murder Emma for more spurious reasons than being dumped.
(She should've seen it coming, though. Running away from their girlfriends / wives seems to be genetic for the Summers men.)
"Oh, no, Mystique is burning down Krakoa for no reason we can possibly understand... and she's got a sidekick!"


Tormenting a demon by playing The Pretenders on recorder and kazoo? Hmm. Very evil of Yana.
But are they doing a bad Scottish accent on top of it?
[scribble scribble]


"You just blew my cover."
Logan... you've been over this. Wearing an eyepatch and a suit is not 'cover'. Everyone can tell it's just you in an eyepatch and a suit, they just don't say anything because they don't want stabbed.

[icon_uk]

The Proclaimers, rather than The Pretenders.

It it was The Pretenders, it would be "2000 Miles" rather than 500 miles.

[tinygaylaura]

I like to think it's like the bit in Scrubs where they only sing the first bit of the babyback ribs jingle

"Dear god when do they sing about how they would walk five hundred more?!"

"NEVER

They never sing that they would walk five hundred more"

[mastermahan]

Okay, THAT is the sort of sadistic, creative torture I can see Magik getting behind.

[tinygaylaura]

She totally would!

[mastermahan]

Logan... you've been over this. Wearing an eyepatch and a suit is not 'cover'. Everyone can tell it's just you in an eyepatch and a suit, they just don't say anything because they don't want stabbed.

Imagine if Matches Malone was Bruce in full Batman costume, only chewing on a matchstick and squinting a bit.

[scorntx]

"Matches Malone? ... why are you dressed like Batman?"

[bruinsfan]

Anybody that doesn’t like Cable as a kid, doesn’t deserve to like him when he’s a grizzled vet.

Fair enough, since I never liked the grizzled vet version either. For all I care they can both get retconned out of existence the next time Legion throws a hissyfit or Wolverine gets access to a time machine and decides someone in the past needs killing.

[dr_archeville]

The "no resurrections" thing applying to Versions from Alternate Dimensions strikes me as really odd, since they would be different -- in some cases very different -- individuals.

[scorntx]

Like with Blink. We got regular universe Blink running around, and AoA Blink somewhere (or Ahmed's Exiles Blink, who is supposed to be AoA Blink despite acting nothin' like her).
What happens if one of them dies? Do the Five have a game of rock, paper, scissors to see which one gets revived? Or does 616 Blink get precedence because she's from this universe?

"Sorry, Blink, but Blink died first, so if you die... well, them's the breaks."
"b-but-"
"Hey, we don't make the rules. Oh, wait. We do."

[tinygaylaura]

I assume it's just that absolutely no one wants Nate Grey back

Which I can understand